September 22nd, 2010 
T.C. When NASCAR announced today that they were dropping the hammer on Clint Bowyer and his team for violations following his win at Loudon, they showed the teams and fans that nobody is above the law. Big team, small team, in the Chase, or just trying to qualify, the rules apply to everyone.
Both myself and Journo have not been afraid in the two-plus year existence of this blog to both criticize and defend NASCAR. If we’ve thought one way or the other, we’ve said so. And in the process, we’ve often been called homers, kool aid drinkers, and worse. One very glaring example of such a case where we were accused of being homers was the infamous Carl Long incident. Over and over we had commenters who claimed that NASCAR was trying to hold the little guy back, and that they never came down hard on big teams (search Carl Long in the search box to the right to see the many posts and comments). We gave example after example that proved otherwise, but it didn’t matter. “If the same would have happened to Jimmie Johnson, the penalty would have been less severe.” So I have one question haters, where are you today?
In a statement from the team, Richard Childress said the measurement in question was off by 60 thousandths of an inch. So in effect, NASCAR just poured gasoline on Bowyer’s Chase chances (with the 150 point penalty) over the thickness of 15 sheets of paper (Thanks Dr. Diandra). Still think NASCAR only bullies the little guys?
It was very interesting today to follow this story as it developed and all the discussion via Twitter. We had everyone from drivers, to the media and the fans reacting as this story happened. For those upset by the penalty, it appears that the overwhelming reason is that NASCAR wouldn’t give exact details about what was illegal. I did see too the theory that NASCAR was doing this to Bowyer just to help out Jimmie, which I think is great, because dropping Bowyer from second to twelfth in the standings doesn’t benefit Johnson in any way. He’s still 92 points out of the lead regardless. What I didn’t see were any comments about the fairness of the penalty based on the status of RCR as a team in the sport.
I also want to point out that this penalty was announced on the same day as a penalty levied against little Whitney Motorsports for engine valves that did not meet weight requirements. They were fined $50,000, lost their crew chief for six races, and lost 50 driver and owner points. I sure didn’t see anyone piling on NASCAR for penalizing this small team. And they claim that it wasn’t their fault because the engine was worked on by Arrington Engines, which sounds awfully familiar to the story Carl Long gave about his illegal engine. Yet still no comments. Why? Because it’s tough to hate on NASCAR for being unfair on a day when they showed that it doesn’t matter who breaks the rules.
Over the last few years we’ve been fed all types of reasons why something was illegal on a race car. We’ve heard rogue crew chiefs, rogue engine shops, and rogue crew members were to blame. But a rogue tow truck driver? Now that takes the cake.
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They were warned at Richmond for the exact same thing. If you wanted to guess at a conspiracy (I don’t), it would be that the car was over the line and NASCAR “took it easy on them” there.
The second violation at NHMS would be too much for anyone to take, and you get the book thrown at you for that. And if you’re NASCAR, you can let Richard say whatever he wants to in public to save face for his sponsors.
If he doesn’t appeal, it’s an open and shut case on the violation. If RCR does appeal on the tow truck defense, they better have more proof than the violation itself. (Stewart’s car better measure out close to the same).
This is why few appeals win. Someone’s opinion on a tow truck holds very little weight next to hard concrete evidence. But NASCAR is nice enough to let you say whatever the hell you want to for your sponsors.
So NASCAR is still nicer than they need to be. And it’s no conspiracy. It’s just business.
No, it doesn’t help out JJ. It does, however, help the one who has been lauded by NASCAR and the majority of ther (loud)mouthpieces as the one who they want to see dethrone him–Hamlin…
Ok here you go, with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
Since JJ started out so poorly NASCAR has to make it easier for him to win 6 in a row. So they penalize CB enough to put him behind JJ. They didn’t want to penalize Hamlin since that would have been to obvious. Next week they will either penalize another chase driver who is ahead JJ, or have a chase driver ahead of JJ taken out in a crash early enough to make sure they end below 30th in points. There are rumors that they are offering money to a chase driver to blow his engine (or some other mechanical problem) causing them to leave the race early. There is one teams considering the offer.
OR
They did let the big guy off, he had problems at Richmond the week before.
Cup Series director John Darby said members of the RCR organization were present at the R&D center Sept. 14 when NASCAR began the inspection of the Richmond car and saw the numbers that NASCAR found troubling.
“When the initial inspection process from Richmond unveiled itself, they saw numbers that we saw at the same time, which resulted in some meetings last Tuesday [Sept. 14],” Darby said. “Those meetings turned into conversations throughout the week, with a final ‘Let’s get all of the principals of RCR together along with the principals of NASCAR’ and really have a very clear understanding of how we’re going to proceed going forward, which happened later in the week.”
How your going to proceed going forward?! IF the car is legal it’s legal there is nothing to discuss and figure out how to proceed going forward! The car was illegal then, they had meetings behind closed doors to figure out how to hid the fact. The numbers were troubling because he was over the limit! RCR needed CB to make the chase, for sponsorship reasons. So he paid off NASCAR to let that week slide by so CB could make the chase. Also part of the agreement was CB would be penalized this week, which RC was fine with since he needed KH to be the #1 driver in the stable to give one more stab at Shell before they left at the end of the season.
Boy this is fun / easy when you don’t have to worry facts to back things up.
You are still seem pretty defensive about the whole Carl Long situsation and the BS that NASCAR DID DO TO HIM.
This BS proves nothing about NASCAR’s fairness. RCR is a big one, but Clint is not exactly a marquee name, yet.
I think this just proves that NASCAR continues to be full of crap, and I may sit out the rest of this “season”. If Clint cheated, take away the win. PERIOD.
If Clint cheated….. then show us, the paying fan, EXACTLY WHAT HE DID, no more BS secrets. IF he cheated, then toss him for the rest of the season….. oh …they can not do that because that would anger the sponsors? …oh OK… then it proves this is a bunch of crap, behind the curtain magic, not a reality run game. NOT A REAL SPORT.
Why isnt NASCAR 100% transparent about EXACLTY WHAT HE DID… AND… if he cheated THEN TOSS HIM. Are they really talking about .06 of an inch on something??… Just like the Carl Long thing, is that enough to really give him an advantage?
It is not like he used an extra long gas line to cheat…. but who the heck knows what is going on. His car paased inspection and was fine at the track, but under a microscope it failed.??? WTF??? HOW MANY OTHER CARS WOULD ALSO FAIL UNDER CLOSE INSPECTION?? THIS CLASSIC NASACAR BS!!…. You know what??… at this point I really dont care anymore.
NASCAR is all smoke and mirrors….. and that is what happens when sponsors and big money control things, versus winners on the track controlling things.
I will think about it, but I may be done for this season, which means skipping the local race, for me, next week, but oh well…. I bet we can find something else to do.
NASCAR,
You are so full of crap…. with all your secrets and money hoarding at the top and wierd ways of running this that and the other…. This BS is going to kill you and everyone who makes a living doing the NASCAR thing….. it has become a joke.
IF SOMEONE CHEATES TOSS THEM. PERIOD….
TAKE AWAY THE HEISMAN, TAKE AWAY THE WIN…. But stop playing your BS secret little games. Tell us what he did exactly, or drop it. Why should we fans care if you can just wave you magic wand anytime you want to and ruin a guys chase chances, after he worked all season?
This nonsense really takes the fun out of it….. and anyone who says “see?” this proves NASACAR IS HONEST…. well ,,,,Uh, Clint is not exactly a marquee name, now is he? …. SO THIS PROVES NOTHING.
I may be done for the seson…. oh well.
If I dont post again, thanks T.C. and Journo for the fun I had here. I did learn some good stuff : ) You both do a good job of providing a venue for fans, but if I am not a fan, then I should not just post mean comments… but maybe I will come back next next year.
Good Luck.
According to ESPN last night, NASCAR is very transparent, so much so that the offending car (or items, depending on the situation) are made available at the R&D center for other crews and the media to look at. That said, speaking for the fans, we’d sure like to know more specifics, more than just that the ‘car did not meet specifications’.
What I am puzzled about is how/why the 33 car was built/run out of tolerances. A penalty this big suggests that this wasn’t a gray area, but rather a black and white violation of a clearly detailed specification (something along the lines of ‘an intake valve must weight at least XX ounces’). So… do the teams not measure the cars while they are being built and then again before loading them on the transports? Could they have really intentionally crossed the line, hoping that they’d escape the NASCAR inspection lottery? The former seems negligent, the latter seems stupid, especially since they were warned after Richmond.
And a few more questions: where is RCR’s Director of Competition? Isn’t he the one supervising the construction of the cars, do crew and car chiefs do things behind his back? Is this violation something that would have been unique to the 33 in the RCR garage, is it dumb to assume that the 29 and 31 cars weren’t built to the same spec and thus also in violation?
steve: According to Childress, the measurement in question was outside of specifications by 60 thousandths of an inch. This was not a gray area. And why is it so hard to believe that they would have done something like this intentionally? Teams are going to push the envelope wherever they can, and in this case maybe they meant to break the rule, or maybe they were trying to just be really close but made a mistake and went over. Either way, the car was illegal and at the end of the day they are responsible for it. As to your questions about the competition director and the other cars, I really can’t answer those.
TC: I know RCR is responsible, I was just pondering how it came to be. Don’t the teams have the same templates as NASCAR, and it they do, don’t they use them to ensure the cars are legal? If so, either they unintentionally crossed the line… and then failed to detect it, or they knew what they were doing and hoped they wouldn’t get caught. Either scenario seems odd for a big-money operation like RCR, it’s not as if they don’t have the money for the latest in testing and measuring equipment.
Garry- HAHAHA. “Clint is not exactly a marquee name.” Really? Really? I think our friends at General Mills and RCR would disagree, but I guess whatever makes you feel better about being angry over this. Your comment is a series of contradictions. In one breath you say it was a miniscule amount so he shouldn’t be penalized and then in the next breath you say “IF SOMEONE CHEATS TOSS THEM. PERIOD…” Which is it? The fact is if your out of the tolerances allowed (those are tolerances beyond what’s allowed in the rulebook) aren’t you cheating? Aren’t you at the very least breaking the rules? And isn’t that worth a penalty? What’s the difference between being .006in out of compliance or 6in out of compliance? It’s all relative. On to your insistance that NASCAR be more transparent, I ask you, what sport is? When a player in the NFL, NBA or MLB fails a drug test those leagues don’t spell out why they failed. And why does it matter? They were out of compliance. RCR has in fact admitted to being out of compliance – they feel there was a reason and they will appeal this – but NASCAR has to draw a line in the sand. Especially since RCR was warned the week before about a similar issue. If this is the final straw for you I guess lots of luck – but something tells me you were just looking for a reason.
Watch out for those black helicoptors people…
I imagine that penalizing a Chase Car is the LAST THING that NASCAR wanted to do, therefore the warning
LAST week about the Richmond car. I’m theorizing here, but I also bet when they found the NH car out of compliance, they leaked the Richmond story to the AP to show that they tried to keep RCR in compliance. AND I don’t blame them.
My issue with all of this is those who complain that the car passed the inspection at the track but then failed at the R&D center. If the inspection at the R&D center, isn’t designed to further scrutinize the car, why take it there. To quote Tony Stewart, “this isn’t rocket science.”
I hate that this happened to Clint.That being said,The rules are there for everyone.Still sad for Clint though.Way it is.
Clint might be a marquee name, but he is not one of Nascar’s “Chosen Ones”. Its quite a coincidence too that Nascar’s biggest chosen one is at the bottom of the Chase standings when this happened.
I’m just wondering – did NASCAR also check the other two RCR cars?
It appears to me that this “enhanced downforce modification” was something RCR’s engineers worked out in the wind tunnel and the mod would be shared across the teams.
I was one who thought the Carl Long incident was total BS. Does that mean I’m a “hater”? If so, can someone please tell me who I “hate” because I’m clueless.
But back to Clint’s issue. As a fan, I’d like to know what the heck the problem was and I’d like to hear it directly from NASCAR since they assess the penalty. Here I was getting all excited about a compelling Chase because someone not expected to make a move jumps from 12 to 2. But nows he’s right back to 12 and done for the year as far as the Chase goes. This, after still being awarded the win?? Senseless…
For me, this doesn’t compare to NFL drug testing. This was an “on the track” infraction, so to me it is no different than the refs in the NFL taking away a touchdown and then saying “you really don’t need to know why”. And then we find out thru the grapevine it was because the QB wore an unapproved jock strap because the elastic was too loose. (The team of course blames it on the service company that replaced the thermostat in the dryer.)
In addition to telling fans what the heck the problem is, NASCAR needs to come up with a more coherent way to assess penalities instead of just making it up as they go. To me this is where NASCAR is getting beat up on by the fans the most, because it allows all sorts of perceptions to be formed each time they make something else up.
In my opinion they could easily fix this problem as follows: for infractions that create a *measureable* competitive advantage, it costs two laps, end of story. For infractions that do not create a *measureable* competitive advantage, it costs 1/2 the purse, end of story. Simple. Effective. Fully understandable by all.
HAHAHA? ? ….. uh …. ok
I did/am saying both.
If he cheated why would he keep the win?
Why apply only a penalty while allowing his rolling billboard to keep rolling (when he
is a confirmed cheater) but guaranteeed prevents him from winning what he fought for all
season ??
The answer is… SPONSOR MONEY, and it taints NASCAR, and you think that is funny?
At the same time it seems that 6/1000 of an inch is not enough to matter, BUT IF IT
IS… THEN HE CHEATED AND HE SHOULD BE TOSSED… but they wont do that because of the
sponsor money issue, which as I have pointed out on this blog many times is a big
problem in how NASCAR deals with things.
If you cheat in MLBaseball you are out. They tossed Maney Rameriz 50 games last season
for cheating, and they spelled out EXACTLY WHAT DRUG HE TOOK. Many many NFL players are
tossed for 5-6 games for cheating… and they say why.
But in NASCAR, with that sponosr money at stake, they are going to bend rules….. and
if you saying that Clint is a JJ or Dale Jr or Jeff Gordon, then okey dokey. If you can
not see the failure in this situation, then
Garry – “The answer is… SPONSOR MONEY, and it taints NASCAR, and you think that is funny?” No, I was laughing at your statement that, “This BS proves nothing about NASCAR’s fairness. RCR is a big one, but Clint is not exactly a marquee name, yet.” That’s funny – whether you care to admit it or not he is on the same level as those guys you name. Now if we’re talking popularity among fans, probably not, but he is a marquee name and marquee driver. I have a feeling though you would find something wrong with this no matter who the driver was. NASCAR is always kowtowing to somebody right (note the sarcasm)?
NASCAR told you what he was penalized for – they don’t get into specifics though (and again why does it matter?). MLB did not specify what Manny Ramirez tested positive for. From an ESPN article talking about the suspension: ” The commissioner’s office did not say what the Dodgers slugger tested positive for.” The same is true for every other instance of a player being suspended for drugs that I can think of. NASCAR is no different than any other major sporting body in that regard. You, and frankly many fans hold this sanctioning body to a different standard – I’m not really sure why.
To your point about NASCAR not taking away wins, is this a recent issue with you or a long standing one? NASCAR never takes wins away for stuff like this, but with the penalty they more or less voided it – Clint gets to keep the trophy and some prize money, but this damages his championship hopes, especially since he won’t have his crew chief or car chief for the next six races. Is that not enough? Are you advocating for drivers to get suspended for things their teams do too?
Again, if this incident is what drives you away from the sport, lots of luck.
Is the selection of cars to be post race inspected random or do they normally inspect the car that wins? If they normally inspect the winning car I don’t see why RCR would allow Bowyer to win the race knowing the car would be pulled for inspection if the infraction was intentional. I also don’t believe RCR would intentionally set a chase car up out of tolerance or that close to out of tolerance knowing the potential penalty. All that being said if NASCAR wanted to ensure fairness to all chase contenders why would they not implement the standard of measuring each of the 12 cars after each race. How do we know that Hamlin’s car was within tolerance as an example.
Journo, I don’t see why you compare it to drug infractions in the NFL. There has NEVER been a major sport that has taken points off the board for a drug infraction. The Mayfield situation compares to that, but not this situation.
Points were taken off the board for something that happened on the track. So from the fan perspective, it only makes sense to tell us why points were taken off the board.
Sorry, but “because the car did not meet specification” doesn’t cut it anymore than if the NFL were to take points off the board and state “because the down did not meet specification”.
I’m a little late to the game here. While I agree with the article, and also can’t stand the conspiracy talk… one point about drug testing that needs to be considered:
Leagues don’t want to mention specifics because of health information privacy concerns. Technically having steroids or another drug in your body is a health concern, and the leagues are private entities.
I think they don’t want to go anywhere near mentioning specifics regarding ANYTHING dealing with a person’s body. Lots of legal concerns there.
A car’s measurements are not protected by any laws.
The drug Manny was suspended for was a female pregnancy drug, and its name was made public. I am not going to quibble about it. MLB is not a private little enterprise that makes up rules as it goes along like NASCAR does. MLB is a conglomerate of owners who make fair rules….. fair for players…. fair for owners…. anyway….
Here is the point. If Clint cheated, then he is a cheater and he hurt the 2nd place driver, and he should be tossed. If he is not a cheater then do not penalize him, but NASCAR carefully calculating the point penalty deduction to make sure he can not win the Chamionship is rigging the game.
People watch NASCAR to see race car drivers win it on the track…. but if NSACAR is just going to adjust everything to suit them… based on 6/0000 of an inch… and call him a cheater …. and then not properly penalize….. then please explain what is the point of the actual race?… I mean besides getting us to see sponsors names.
NASCAR has proven over and over that they will do whatever they want, seemingly on a whim….. If they do a microscopic test to Clint’s car then they need to test EVERY CAR OUT THERE EVERY TIME, or STFU.
But if races will be settled later in a fashion NASCAR has already decided, what is the point of watching or caring about the actual race? of this chase… or talking about it. I am responding to you comments, and it is getting old.
You being somewhat snippy about my stated opinion is odd, but I guarantee you that I am not the only one feeling like this, so go ahead and laugh away any fans who feel different than you. Do what ever you want. But when we walk away, dont wonder what happened, we tried to help, we tried to voice what we thought…..
I walked away from Boxing years ago after watching a rigged fight that ended in a tie. 3 judges and it was a tie?? We paid to go watch it at the arena CCTV and my buddy and I bet each other, and it was a tie??? We both decided it was a what a waste of my time and I have not watched a single boxing match since. Do you suppose I was predecided on that too?? ….just looking for problems? I think that say something about you.
You saying “something tells me you were just looking for a reason.” is lame. I guess you think that anyone who disagrees with you must just want problems and know that up front? and you dismiss them and HAHAHA them away?.. okey dokey…
You can feel anyway you want, but when people quit caring and quit posting……. well heck….. that wont be a problem for you or NASCAR, because you and NASCAR obviously have so many fans that it does not matter how many walk away. I wonder if that is how Blockbuster Video used to feel?
Have fun, while it lasts.
hate it for the 33 team but the bottom line is: the car was outside the tolerances. that made it an illegal car. hence, the penalities.
and remember that the tolerances are above what’s actually permitted by the sport. it’s kinda like pit road speeding: drivers get about 5 mph above the actual pit road speed before getting penalized. when i hear it said “he was only 1 mph over the limit,” what i’m actually hearing is “he was 6 mph over the limit.” you have the base and then the tolerance. by how much the tolerance is violated is irrelevant. it’s over and by definition is a violation. 3 business cards or 6 sheets of paper or some depth of fingernails matters not: it was over and it is a violation.
i don’t know how it happened but the car was found to be over the tolerances when it was inspected at R&D. intentional? “super tow truck” victim? yeah, i’d be interested in hearing the final decision on what/how it happened but for now, the car failed, the penalties have been stated, the appeal has started. that’s the way the system works. it worked that way for carl long and it worked that way for richard childress.
two things nascar has stated repeatedly that it will have zero tolerance over: engine and chassis violations. this is consistent with that stated position AND the current statement that future penalties will likely be even more severe.
no need for conspiracy theories or reaching for obtuse, outrageous explanations when the reality, as unexciting as it is, explains what’s happened.
Garry: NASCAR did not carefully calculate a points penalty to eliminate Bowyer from the Chase. The 150 point penalty is in line without recent penalties. And Bowyer is not out of the Chase. The 198 points that he is behind is certainly not insurmountable. It’s probably difficult, but not impossible to overcome. And why do you think that NASCAR does everything to suit them? I can promise you that they don’t have some ridiculous vendetta against Bowyer and his RCR team. The measurement in question was out of specification by 60 thousandths of a inch. Whether you think that gives them some sort of significant advantage or not doesn’t matter. According to the rule, this car was off. There is no other way around it. Off is off.
Richard: NASCAR always takes the winning car and several randoms after the race for inspection.
I realize many of you can’t seem to find a way to rationalize why the #33 could have been out of spec if the team knew they were going to be inspected. It seems that the easiest thing to do is just blame NASCAR for being unfair or doing something shady. But has anyone actually stopped to consider that maybe the team did this on purpose, knew it was illegal, and decided to run it anyway? There are plenty of notable times when teams cheated on purpose, but still got caught. For god sake, Gibbs employees put magnets underneath gas pedals on their Nationwide cars to throw off NASCAR’s inspectors about their Toyota horsepower. You don’t think the #33 team could have possibly moved something a fraction of an inch to gain an advantage? Please…
TC: Yeah, I’m one of those who accepts the 33 was outside the spec but still can’t make sense of this. Who knowingly cheats knowing that they’re probably going to get caught? I don’t speed if I know a cop is just ahead of me with a radar gun. The Gibbs guys thought they’d get away without NASCAR looking on the bottom of the accelerator (by the way, was it luck that the inspector found it, did the magnet fall off, were they fingered by someone with a conscience, or what?). Maybe the 33 team didn’t think Bowyer would win and they’d get away without the scrutiny given to the winner. Or maybe they played Russian roulette with this particular violation, thinking that NASCAR doesn’t always check body to chassis alignment, especially if, being only a fraction of an inch over, it wasn’t something that would stand out during a visual check? Maybe somebody just screwed up at the shop and didn’t give the car the full once-over before loading it on the hauler. Maybe there was a second driver on the grassy knoll.
Inquiring minds want to know…
Garry – What Manny was suspended for came out, but it did not come from MLB which is what you said in your previous post. Just like NASCAR, the conglomeration of owners that make up Major League Baseball do not release every little detail when they penalize someone (if you don’t believe me I would encourage you to research the topic). This is not a new thing. And both have rulebooks that are public (though not necessarily available for sale) that they follow. This penalty was not something NASCAR made up on the spot, but in fact an established rule.
You are clearly upset at this sport (and from the looks of it, you’re upset at me too), and I’m sure you have been for some time (though not necessarily at me). I can’t make you feel better about things and won’t try because we are on two completely different pages. And even though I strongly disagree with what you have to say, you are free to your opinion just as I am. As you know this is a place of thoughtful, constructive conversation.
As horribly boring as it is, the RCR team was probably pushing it a little too far and they went over (again this is past what’s prescribed for in the rulebook and the tolerance that is allowed) and got caught – if you need confirmation of this, reference the warning they received last week. Whether you agree with the penalty or not is another story, but I think it’s hard to argue that some penalty wasn’t warranted. .0006 in or 60 in, they were still out. NASCAR followed precedent and issued a penalty (they are right in line with where they have been lately). There was no conspiring to keep Bowyer out of the championship, rig anything, or a desire by anyone to sink a driver, relevant or not. Rules are rules, and it would appear in this case RCR broke them.
Steve – I don’t think you can say they knew they were going to get caught. If they finished worse there was a chance NASCAR wouldn’t even have found it. Something else to think about too is the possibility that this wasn’t necessarily deliberate that they were just pushing it that close to gain that slight advantage. After the warning last week it was clear they’d already been very close on these tolerances. They opened the door to that extra bit of scrutny from NASCAR and they got caught.
It was clearly a touchdown.
NASCAR has lost a friend, and fan, in me.
A real friend is someone you can trust to tell you “hey man did you use deodorant” or “hey man, you have a lil piece of something in your teeth” or other honest, but sometimes brutal,
truths. You can trust my opinion because I have integrity. I am simply a race fan. I call it like I see it. I am not on the payroll of NASCAR. I am not on the payroll of it competition. I am just a race fan who has watched NASCAR for a long long time…. but they lost me this year.
It is sad, I was one of the last of my friends who actually still watched. I had to start playing the fantasy leagues to just to keep it interesting becasue most of my friends already walked away. I had to start posting on blogs to talk about it becasue they were all fed up with the BS and had walked already. They told me that it was nothing but a big advertising scheme, but I knew better I knew it was really racing….. welll I was wrong. The only difference in NASCAR and regular billboards … is in NASCAR the billboards drive by you as opposed to you driving by the billboards.
I dont mind all the ads, but I guess it is the the ads that ruined it. The sponsor required money ruined it. The rigged system has ruined it. It is not about racing, it is about advertising, and that is boring.
I started watching NASCAR again (even after boycotting last year, after the Carl Long issue, but I came back) because I like racing. I like all kinds of racing and all
aspects of racing, but NASCAR is not really about racing ….Facts be known it should
really be called NASCAA …. Auto Advertising. NASCAR is a silly lil ma and pa operation that grew very large big, but they still try to run it like hicks. They try too hard to control it with a Boss Hogg mentality. They hire a new group of thugs to take charge of “media control”, to got a hold of you and ask you to clean out any naysayers……. oh well. Yeah I came back,,,, but who knows if I will next year…. who cares… If it is all riggeed, why get excited about a race which will be RE-decided in the back room of NASCAA central.
NASCAA is NOT about racing. It is NOT about pit stops. It is NOT about speed. It is about advertising and sponsors, and that makes me wanna puke. i did not listen, at
first, to people who told me it was rigged. I said “It is hard to rig things at 190mph”…. well this Clint thing shows it easy to rig things. Go ahead …. say I am talking black helicoptors….. and HAHAHAHA me away saying it is all conspiriacy theory… oh well…. Yaeh none of it is true….just like Big Tabacco back in the 1960s saying, and shoooing and HAHAHAHAing at folks coming forward saying there is a problem here….. I would think busines people would learn natural honest growth is better, versus trying to strangle and control evry aspect…..
I understand you all make your living by doing this thing, and you will not bite the
hand that feeds, so I know you could not speak up even if you agreed with me….and that is the failure…. I am a racing fan, but NASCAA is not about racing, it is about advertising, and you lost me this year. As I said, I may be back next year, but maybe not…. this is pretty sour tasting. It is not fun. It is BS, it is rigged winner picking…. add to it the “interesting” responses for you guys (I am sure NSACAA will be very proud of you for defending it honor)
I guess I should not post here again this year….. which will help along NASCAA’s new plan to rummy out anyone who speaks, or types, anything against NASCAA policy. I guess that plan is working, and it will make them happy that I leave.
In the end you will be left with only people who agree with you and NASCAA, and it may all seem perfect, with no one saying anything about problems and issues…. but the numbers will show that is not true. I know one fact for sure, no conspiracy….. NASCAA lost about $200-$700 in revenue from me, the money I would have spent in person next weekend, but I am sure they dont care…. there are still plenty of people who will go….. for now.
My objective was to post feedback and information from a real fan, not a paid handjob giver….. but NASCAA is too smart, they dont need no help from no one… shucks… things are all fine and rosey…… good luck with that.
WELCOME ADVERTISING FANS,
GENTLEMEN START YOUR BILLBOARDS.
The bottom line is that the rules are things that somebody made up before the fact, for whatever reasons, and the teams agreed to abide by them. I’m OK with that.
But the issue is that the penalties are made up *after* the fact, nobody has agreed on them, and as a result NASCAR opens themselves up to all sorts of perceptions being formed in the fan base (rightly or wrongly, it doesn’t matter, since ‘perception is reality’). You can argue “tough for the fans that don’t like it”, but does that support the stated goal “to bring fans back into the fold and bring new fans in”?
NASCAR just loves to measure stuff. So fine, let them now measure the *competitive advantage* a team gains with a measured infraction of a stated measurement tolerance. It aint rocket science guys.
And have a *pre prescibed* set of penalties for the already pre prescibed set of infractions…you know…like all other major sports do.
Quit making stuff up as you go NASCAR. Have a pre prescribed penalty for when you *can* measure and quantify a competitive advantage and another pre prescribed penalty for when you *can’t* measure and quantify a competitive advantage.
Look, we’re talking about a sport where we’re asking fans to watch people drive in a circle for 3 hours. Obviously the things that make it interesting are not the cars going in a circle for three hours, its the battle of wills, its the strategies and tactics both on the track and in the pits, its the innovations in the whole system, and most importantly its the stories of the individual drivers and teams that make this sport compelling. Muck up these story lines with some stupid “make it up as we go” enforcements and those story lines fly out the window and all we’re left with is…cars going in a circle for 3 hours.
Sorry, but if it were only about watching some hi-tech stuff go real fast and be really loud doing it, we can go to the airport and watch much higher tech stuff go much faster and be alot louder doing it for free for however long we want to watch it.
Just sayin’…
All 43 teams are pushing the envelope to go faster than the other 42. NASCAR just took it as if RCR was being stubborn, so they brought down the “we’re NASCAR how dare you” on the #33.
Oh yea, and there is NO way in heck they win the appeal.
I don’t understand how a car can pass pre & post race inspection, and then be declared out of spec after dissasembling the car. I think NASCAR should be a bit more transparent in it’s inspection process so the fan can get a handle on all this. NASCAR answers to it’s fans. No fans, no NASCAR. Like 1990, this Championship will now have an asterick next to it. It’s not good for a sport that has sponsors running to other motor sports leagues.
The rules are rules, but I am starting to think they need to step up the level of accuracy of the post race inspection on the winning care at the track. Especially in the Chase… and if it’s a Chase car.
I’m not a racer dude, but if it passed pre and post race inspection… then something was found after wards, when the car was no longer in the teams control… and then they get hammered? I think that is what is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. That is it for me at least.
NASCAR will do whatever it wants… but I’ve never understood or thought it was fair how they handle the penalties and appeals.
Sure RCR coulda tweaked and pushed a boundary… they’ve done it before… that’s racin’. I wouldn’t put it past ‘em at all.
It just seems off to me.
Then, maybe I’m biased cuz I’m a Bow Tie Guy.
*smirk*
Love the site…
-W
[...] it won the Chase-opening Sylvania 300 on Sept. 19 at New Hampshire. Team owner Richard Childress appealed the penalties because he said either taps either from drivers congratulating Bowyer on his victory lap or the [...]
Remember, “the rules” when it comes to NASCAR are a bunch of stuff somebody made up in a room somewhere that (supposedly) have but three purposes:
1) to make things safer
2) to make things more entertaining
3) to govern the economics of the business
Obviously “the rules” are failing on point 2. So maybe both the rules and the enforcements need an overhaul?
one final comment…
I did not look for it, I did mean to see it, I did not mean hear it but after the F1 race practice yesterday, on speed channel …. when I came back into the room…. Clint was making a statement about this BS.
It broke my heart to see and hear a guy who is puzzled about why his Championshio hopes are finished. Like a man he explained the nonsense of this crap…. and listening to him reinforced my decision to stop watching NASCAA anymore this year. I am punishing NASCAA … I AM TOSSING THEM FOR THE YEAR… IT IS MY PENALTY ON THEM…
I am aware they may not care about me and my opinion, and facts be known probably no one cares if one guy stops watching…..but I am making a statement that if NASCAA wants to pull this crap, I will not watch.
I am doing this to stand up for the little guy being bullied by NASCAA becasue If no one says or does a thing, then NASCAA will continue this BOSS HOGG, “small town” type of bullying and rigging of races….
If more people would step up and demand they cut they cut crap and make it consistant and fair, if more people would make a statement…. then maybe NASCAA would listen.
That is what I am doing… someone has to.
Clint I am behind you 100%, and you are not even one of my fav racers… but anyway…
I may be back next year… but this year is over, unless they reverse this crap… then I am back….. which will show I am not just being a crybaby, or looking for trouble. I just demand a fair system where Championships are won on the track and not handed out to the teachers pet.
There is no reason to be excited about races if the results can be altered by meaningless made up rigged rules off the off track.
IF SOMEONE CHEATS , TELL US WHY… AND TOSS THEM,,, but when NASCAA is just making crap up to allow someone else a chance to move up…. then why would anyone care to watch that?
that is all. see ya next year.
Beating this to death…
“Steve – I don’t think you can say they knew they were going to get caught.”
I just read that NASCAR told RCR that the 33 would be inspected after NH, no matter where they finished. Given that, how stupid would RCR have to be to not make double sure that the car was within specs? It’s like having the IRS tell you in advance they’re going to audit your return and then going ahead and making up deductions anyway.