Comments on: Start-And-Park Has Become A Mode Of Survival http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/ A blog by insiders for outsiders Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:03:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Garry http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28579 Garry Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:14:55 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28579 GREAT idea Craig.... If it is true (as said above ) that most teams have their budget set without ever considering thier perfromance on the track during the season ( uising free sponsor handout money .... being on the dole ..... not needing to win) then lets at least make the races more exciting .... how about ... NO ONE PAST 25th place gets ANYTHING ( are you listerning lil cybaby janey montoya? 32nd place mean you get NOTHING!!! no laying down ) If no one gets anything past 25th spot ... it will eliminate these S&Pers and we will see drivers AGAIN racing to race ... not to make a living ..... THIS IS RACING, not mail room duty. For that matter only drivers in the Top 10 should get 80% of the points. In the old days it was WIN1st, PLACE2nd AND SHOW3rd ... and the rest of those LOSERS GOT NOTHING. BE A WINNER OR GO AWAY. If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen. If you cant win then get a real job and post to blogs from home, like most of us do >: ( .... You better understand that it is an honor and privilege to be in the show. You are lucky to be able to race every weekend ... ACT LIKE IT!!!! PUT UP OR GO HOME If you want to just make a living ... then get a real job, go sort mail or be a mechanic or something ........ BUT.... IF you want to be a BADAZZ RACING CAR HERO THEN GET OUT THERE AND RACE THE FULL RACE AND GO FOR THE WIN, DONT PARK as a race strategy. (Example -although he is not one my favorite drivers, I credit Jimmy Johnson for being BADAZZ RACING CAR HERO ...I wish there more like him) ARE YOU LISTENING NASCAR ... THIS IS GETTING BORING !!!!!! GREAT idea Craig…. If it is true (as said above ) that most teams have their budget set without ever considering thier perfromance on the track during the season ( uising free sponsor handout money …. being on the dole ….. not needing to win) then lets at least make the races more exciting …. how about … NO ONE PAST 25th place gets ANYTHING ( are you listerning lil cybaby janey montoya? 32nd place mean you get NOTHING!!! no laying down )

If no one gets anything past 25th spot … it will eliminate these S&Pers and we will see drivers AGAIN racing to race … not to make a living ….. THIS IS RACING, not mail room duty.

For that matter only drivers in the Top 10 should get 80% of the points. In the old days it was WIN1st, PLACE2nd AND SHOW3rd … and the rest of those LOSERS GOT NOTHING.

BE A WINNER OR GO AWAY. If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen. If you cant win then get a real job and post to blogs from home, like most of us do >: ( …. You better understand that it is an honor and privilege to be in the show. You are lucky to be able to race every weekend … ACT LIKE IT!!!! PUT UP OR GO HOME

If you want to just make a living … then get a real job, go sort mail or be a mechanic or something ……..
BUT….
IF you want to be a BADAZZ RACING CAR HERO THEN GET OUT THERE AND RACE THE FULL RACE AND GO FOR THE WIN, DONT PARK as a race strategy. (Example -although he is not one my favorite drivers, I credit Jimmy Johnson for being BADAZZ RACING CAR HERO …I wish there more like him)

ARE YOU LISTENING NASCAR …
THIS IS GETTING BORING !!!!!!

]]> By: Craig http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28568 Craig Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:00:07 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28568 I personally would rather have short fields than this start and park crap. Not only does this practice take money from other teams it can also impact the championship. Example, Texas last year when JJ crashed early. It's a lot easier to make up points when 5 cars in the field have no intention of running the whole race. If this is going to be a trend for the foreseeable future the way drivers points are rewarded needs to be changed. No drivers points to the back of the field. Give them owners points, since they probably care most about the top 35, but don't let them take points that could be given to race winners. I say cut the points off at the top 25 with more points front load top-10 and up. I personally would rather have short fields than this start and park crap. Not only does this practice take money from other teams it can also impact the championship. Example, Texas last year when JJ crashed early. It’s a lot easier to make up points when 5 cars in the field have no intention of running the whole race. If this is going to be a trend for the foreseeable future the way drivers points are rewarded needs to be changed. No drivers points to the back of the field. Give them owners points, since they probably care most about the top 35, but don’t let them take points that could be given to race winners. I say cut the points off at the top 25 with more points front load top-10 and up.

]]> By: Journo http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28562 Journo Tue, 27 Jul 2010 04:00:51 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28562 Justin - TC's post was about teams like RAB, Tommy Baldwin and Baker Curb, not Prism (it's no secret what Randy Humphrey and Phil Parsons are in the sport to do). It just happened that the quote that gave him the idea came from McDowell who's driving for Prism. Justin – TC’s post was about teams like RAB, Tommy Baldwin and Baker Curb, not Prism (it’s no secret what Randy Humphrey and Phil Parsons are in the sport to do). It just happened that the quote that gave him the idea came from McDowell who’s driving for Prism.

]]> By: Justin http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28561 Justin Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:21:29 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28561 Funny how Mcdowell deleted the posts from his facebook account. Guess he didn't like the fact that the Prism teams made ~$150 k for running 39 laps. Funny how Mcdowell deleted the posts from his facebook account. Guess he didn’t like the fact that the Prism teams made ~$150 k for running 39 laps.

]]> By: Justin http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28560 Justin Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:13:56 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28560 My post is mainly about Prism. "This exact scenario is what many are now starting to face. Instead of putting entire shops of people out of work, owners are using the start-and-park startegy to weather the storm and keep the doors open until they can put money together. " According to Bill Henderson in an article from earlier this season, the 66 team only has 4 members working on the team, 5 if you include Blaney. The reason they started their team was to s&p, not "whether the storm". "Remember that people get involved in racing because they want to compete. " Phis Parsons didn't get involved to race, he got involved to s&p. Phis Parsons and Prism is a disgrace to the sport. Bill Henderson said it costs $60,000 to go out to California earlier this season. Both cars making the race at Indy got them a cool $268,000. $268,000-$120,000= $148,000. I think they could afford to run the full race with at least one car with that kind of money left over. My post is mainly about Prism.

“This exact scenario is what many are now starting to face. Instead of putting entire shops of people out of work, owners are using the start-and-park startegy to weather the storm and keep the doors open until they can put money together. ”

According to Bill Henderson in an article from earlier this season, the 66 team only has 4 members working on the team, 5 if you include Blaney. The reason they started their team was to s&p, not “whether the storm”.

“Remember that people get involved in racing because they want to compete. ”

Phis Parsons didn’t get involved to race, he got involved to s&p.

Phis Parsons and Prism is a disgrace to the sport. Bill Henderson said it costs $60,000 to go out to California earlier this season. Both cars making the race at Indy got them a cool $268,000. $268,000-$120,000= $148,000. I think they could afford to run the full race with at least one car with that kind of money left over.

]]> By: Richard in N.C. http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28559 Richard in N.C. Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:18:55 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28559 I don't really have a problem with people like Tommy Baldwin and Joe Nemechek who apparently have to S&P from time to time in order to be able to actually compete in other races. I still think they're racers. Phil Parsons is a horse of another color since it appears he has no intention of competing and no intention to try to find sponsors - just in the field to siphon off money from real racers. If say 20% to 30% of the prize money were to be paid out in the form of lap money that would reward real racers and make S&P'ing less attractive to people like Parsons who frequently bump real racers out of the field. Unfortunately it appears that diligent S&P'ing can be profitable enough that Parsons has moved up to Cup this year. I don’t really have a problem with people like Tommy Baldwin and Joe Nemechek who apparently have to S&P from time to time in order to be able to actually compete in other races. I still think they’re racers. Phil Parsons is a horse of another color since it appears he has no intention of competing and no intention to try to find sponsors – just in the field to siphon off money from real racers. If say 20% to 30% of the prize money were to be paid out in the form of lap money that would reward real racers and make S&P’ing less attractive to people like Parsons who frequently bump real racers out of the field. Unfortunately it appears that diligent S&P’ing can be profitable enough that Parsons has moved up to Cup this year.

]]> By: Chuck Allen http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28558 Chuck Allen Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:13:55 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28558 I am one of the few who don't have a major issue with the S&P teams. Some of these guys would love nothing more than to race the entire event, and it probably kills them just knowing it won't be happening. The non top 35 teams have to qualify into each event, and if they are good enough to do it, they should have the right to park it in order to survive. It is a shame that many good drivers and even pretty decent teams cannot get the necessary funds to run competitively, but that's the world we currently live in. Truthfully, they wouldn't do much better if the chose to try and run the entire race. I am one of the few who don’t have a major issue with the S&P teams. Some of these guys would love nothing more than to race the entire event, and it probably kills them just knowing it won’t be happening. The non top 35 teams have to qualify into each event, and if they are good enough to do it, they should have the right to park it in order to survive. It is a shame that many good drivers and even pretty decent teams cannot get the necessary funds to run competitively, but that’s the world we currently live in. Truthfully, they wouldn’t do much better if the chose to try and run the entire race.

]]> By: Garry http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28557 Garry Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:03:27 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28557 Doug you sound a lot smarter than me, heck I did not even have a solid idea on how to fix this, but I knew/know there was a problem .... and I KNOW there is lot of money .... I just did/do NOT exactly how to fix it, but your idea seems good to me ..... plus I am sure there are more smart people out there with good ideas. I may be just a stupid race fan who likes to see hard racing start to finish with no planned parking and no laying down, but I am smart enough to know that when people start talking about <b>NOT racing <i>as a racing strategy</i></b> ..... that something is wrong. Another great insdiers thread from TNI Doug you sound a lot smarter than me,
heck I did not even have a solid idea on how to fix this, but I knew/know there was a problem …. and I KNOW there is lot of money …. I just did/do NOT exactly how to fix it, but your idea seems good to me ….. plus I am sure there are more smart people out there with good ideas.

I may be just a stupid race fan who likes to see hard racing start to finish with no planned parking and no laying down, but I am smart enough to know that when people start talking about NOT racing as a racing strategy ….. that something is wrong.

Another great insdiers thread from TNI

]]> By: Doug in CA http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28556 Doug in CA Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:24:44 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28556 T.C., great piece. I don't know much about the agendas of the various S&P teams, but if that's how people make a living, so be it. I remember a few years back Joe Nemechek wanted to run at Talladega or Daytona rather than S&P. He got crashed out early in the race! Garry: now you're talking NBA-style revenue pooling, which means some sort of spending cap. Mike Daly (does Mike read this blog?) has long advocated such a cap, but I don't see how you can control what a team spends. Who's going to monitor paying for each bolt? My only idea here is to shrink the championship pot and increase the payouts at each race. Give the Cup winner a nice trophy and a million bucks. Pay out the rest week by week. Now maybe some of your S&P teams can buy more equipment and not have to park. T.C., great piece. I don’t know much about the agendas of the various S&P teams, but if that’s how people make a living, so be it. I remember a few years back Joe Nemechek wanted to run at Talladega or Daytona rather than S&P. He got crashed out early in the race!

Garry: now you’re talking NBA-style revenue pooling, which means some sort of spending cap. Mike Daly (does Mike read this blog?) has long advocated such a cap, but I don’t see how you can control what a team spends. Who’s going to monitor paying for each bolt?

My only idea here is to shrink the championship pot and increase the payouts at each race. Give the Cup winner a nice trophy and a million bucks. Pay out the rest week by week. Now maybe some of your S&P teams can buy more equipment and not have to park.

]]> By: Garry http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2010/07/25/start-and-park-has-become-a-mode-of-survival/comment-page-1/#comment-28554 Garry Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:57:51 +0000 http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/?p=3234#comment-28554 It is time for NASCAR (The France family) to open up economics of this business , before they kill the goose laying the golden eggs. I AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THIS ... The Start and Parkers are making it obvious. It is NOT the teams fault, it is NASCARs fault. S&Ping is a sympthom of bigger problems, mainly greedy problems, and these problems might be killing the sport from the inside. Money stays with the tracks? who owns a large percentage of the tracks? The purpose of this thread was to point out that S&Pers have become serious issue, and it is now spreading betond the Cup and if NASCAR continues to hide its head in the sand ..... it could murder the sport. Not long ago this was a just a good ole boy sport, not a mutlibillion business scheme. The France family deserves to be happy how they helped grow NASCAR .... but really it is a sport that kind of started on it own, it just kind of grew, and fans came to watch ... BUT ....... maybe parts of it grew in a an unhealthy way. This is sometimes the case when only a few "people" control something, this is called a dictatorship. Dictatorships usually work fine ... for a while... Dictatorships can be great way to run things when something is young and starting out. Having only a few smart "people" make all the right calls without interferance can get things moving along, but after a while the original smart "people" in charge ALWAYS go away, and they ALWAYS leave some people in charge who are NOT as smart (or lucky) as the originals, but the business (country) keeps growing and it can become a monster. BusinessInbreeding of the new "people" in charge can be unhealthy. WHEN the few people ( the new dictators) start making some bad decisions it can hurt things, but becasue the business still run as a dictatorship, problems are ignored ... as long as money is being made. Then, as in all dictatorships you start having the HAVES AND HAVE NOTS .... first it is the small guy who gets crushed, but eventually it ruins the whole country (business) from the inside out. How many times has the world seen (countries) companies do this? It is an old story. History repeats itself, and those who ignore histiorical mistakes are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. There is a lot of money being siphoned out of NASCAR. Maybe some of that money should stay in place. Maybe some money needs to be reinvested and redistributed to keep the sport healthy. Why does something have to become so ruined and rotten before "people" finally step in and say WE NEED TO FIX THIS. Why does an oil well have to spill in the gulf for 90 days before "people" decide we should have a plan of action for this type of thing? It is time for NASCAR (The France family) to open up economics of this business , before they kill the goose laying the golden eggs.

I AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THIS …
The Start and Parkers are making it obvious.
It is NOT the teams fault, it is NASCARs fault.

S&Ping is a sympthom of bigger problems, mainly greedy problems, and these problems might be killing the sport from the inside.

Money stays with the tracks? who owns a large percentage of the tracks?

The purpose of this thread was to point out that S&Pers have become serious issue, and it is now spreading betond the Cup and if NASCAR continues to hide its head in the sand ….. it could murder the sport.

Not long ago this was a just a good ole boy sport, not a mutlibillion business scheme. The France family deserves to be happy how they helped grow NASCAR …. but really it is a sport that kind of started on it own, it just kind of grew, and fans came to watch … BUT ……. maybe parts of it grew in a an unhealthy way. This is sometimes the case when only a few “people” control something, this is called a dictatorship.

Dictatorships usually work fine … for a while… Dictatorships can be great way to run things when something is young and starting out. Having only a few smart “people” make all the right calls without interferance can get things moving along, but after a while the original smart “people” in charge ALWAYS go away, and they ALWAYS leave some people in charge who are NOT as smart (or lucky) as the originals, but the business (country) keeps growing and it can become a monster.

BusinessInbreeding of the new “people” in charge can be unhealthy. WHEN the few people ( the new dictators) start making some bad decisions it can hurt things, but becasue the business still run as a dictatorship, problems are ignored … as long as money is being made. Then, as in all dictatorships you start having the HAVES AND HAVE NOTS …. first it is the small guy who gets crushed, but eventually it ruins the whole country (business) from the inside out. How many times has the world seen (countries) companies do this?

It is an old story. History repeats itself, and those who ignore histiorical mistakes are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

There is a lot of money being siphoned out of NASCAR. Maybe some of that money should stay in place. Maybe some money needs to be reinvested and redistributed to keep the sport healthy.

Why does something have to become so ruined and rotten before “people” finally step in and say WE NEED TO FIX THIS. Why does an oil well have to spill in the gulf for 90 days before “people” decide we should have a plan of action for this type of thing?

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