July 19th, 2010 
Journo “Boys, have at it” may have finally reached its limit.
In the final lap of the Nationwide race at Gateway this weekend, familiar foes Brad Keselowski and Carl Edwards went at it…again. Each driver took a shot at the other, beginning with Keselowski into Edwards, and ending with Edwards into Keselowski (and Keselowski into the wall and Shelby Howard into him). The controversial end to the race is just the latest in a series of incidents since NASCAR loosened its grip on driver confrontations.
Overall, I think we can all agree the policy shift has been successful. Drivers are now settling their disputes between each other, and NASCAR is not affecting points or relationships. Like all good things though, there comes a time when too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing – we may have seen that Saturday night.
Perhaps the goal of these two is to see which can kill the other first – I don’t know. That said, I can’t necessarily blame either for their individual actions. Brad was utilizing the bump and run (it didn’t work), and Carl wasn’t happy about it (given their relationship that’s no surprise). What transpired just short of the start/finish line though should be yet another warning for all those considering ending a fellow competitors day on track.
Did you see how hard Shelby Howard hit Keselowski? The front stretch at such a small track is dangerous with the checkered flag in the air. Again, I don’t necessarily blame Carl for doing what he did, but I think we’re nearing the point when NASCAR needs to draw a line in the sand, and say “this is not acceptable.”
The problem with NASCAR issuing damaging penalties though is that it could have a chilling effect on the policy. If drivers see that there are limits, they might be more apt to keep their mouths shut and their frustration private – something NASCAR desperately wants to avoid.
NASCAR has to walk a very fine line with this (especially under the circumstances). Too much of a penalty they risk alienating a positive policy change. Not enough, they enhance the environment for something more serious to occur.
So far we’ve just seen probation given to those who have actively engaged in on-track retaliation this season. Could that change on Tuesday (NASCAR’s usual penalty announcement day)? I honestly don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised either way.
What do you think? Was the payback justified? Should Carl be penalized? What’s the limit for ‘boys, have at it’? Talk amongst yourselves.
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I think Carl has shown that he’s a bit too immature for the sport. Oddly enough I never expected it from him, but my sister tells me he’s always been this way, and now that he’s be given license to be an idiot that’s what he is doing.
Should he be punished? I don’t know. I’ve always had a problem with drivers using their cars as a weapon to get back at others. Although crashing is part of racing, crashing is also potentially harmful.
So wrecking someone on purpose seems wrong to me. Doing it accidentally in a racing incident (a bump and run gone wrong) isn’t such a huge deal.
In the end I wish that these guys would resort to throwing punches or throwing a helmet rather than using their cars.
just watched the video for the first time and wow … Carl Edwards clearly has a serious hate on for Brad K.
In my amateur opinion it sure looks like the bump ‘n’ run on Carl worked and Brad drove it deep into turn 3, then the drag race for the finish line would have put Brad across first and Carl second.
I think Carl saw it that way too and didn’t want any part of that, turned down into Brad and as a result four or five cars took some serious damage.
For me that’s a step too far over the line and someone should have a serious conversation with Carl and his handlers, if there are any. Perhaps it’s off the record or if that’s already happened then it’s time to put the hammer down.
Getting someone loose in the corner is way different then using the PIT maneuver down a narrow straight stretch with cars piling down toward the finish line.
SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET HURT OR WORSE!!!
With Shelby Howard hitting Brad that hard there goes a good car from a not so top team I’m sure they can’t afford new cars all the time like Brad and Carl’s team can.
Come on guys I don’t want to see any drivers/crew or fans get hurt!!
I think its time to stop this. Carl has gotten to the point where I think he needs to see someone about his temper, they made Tony take anger management I think Tony is 1000 times a better person than Carl will ever be. Someone is going to get killed because of this pay back thing and then Nascar is going to say OH BOY MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVED STEPPED IN??? after it will be too late. Carl makes me think he has roid rage, he needs help SOON…
Leave it the way it is. Carl got the win. YES! Brad did not. YES! Now what Carl did to get the win was wrong I will say that. But they didnt do anything at Atlanta and they wont do anything now.
Whatever Ron. Carl will never ever kill someone. That’s not his motto. He may have gone to far on Satrurday. No Tony is not a better person than Carl. They have an equal personality. So they make him take classes he will just blow them off. LIKE HE DOES TO ALL HIS HATERS!!! Go Carl Edwards and Roush-Fenway!!!
The way I see it there are a couple of things here to consider:
1. Someone is going to get hurt by a driver deliberately taking another driver out . . . be it the driver on the receiving end, another driver at the wrong place at the wrong time, or a fan in the stands. It’s eventually going to go all wrong and then where will we be.
2. The amount of work (and expense) for teams caught up in the middle of this type of situation. How much money (and man hours) will it take to repair the number of cars that were damanged. And, some teams just cannot afford the expense.
It’s sad that NASCAR has let this get so out of hand. A driver showing personality is one thing, but showing stupidity is something else.
Brad should wreck Carl every Cup race until Carl is out of Chase contention. Maybe (and I mean Maybe) Carl will learn then that what he is doing is unacceptable.
What Brad did was loosen Carl up to move him out of the way and take the position. Some drivers are ok with this. See Kurt Busch and Jimmie Johnson a few weeks ago. See also Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch at Bristol 2008. There are multiple examples of this. Some drivers are not. See Mark Martin. However, I think that most fans and drivers believe that the bump and run is an acceptable driving technique. The downside is that if you use your bumper you better expect the retaliation. If Carl had bumped Brad coming out of turn 4, we would not be having this conversation.
However, what Carl did was intentionally wreck Brad on the front straight to prevent Carl from winning. This is not a bump and run. This is intentionally wrecking a fellow driver and putting the entire field in harms way.
Carl needs to be taught a lesson. I hope Brad is the one to do it, but quite frankly I think that there are a number of other drivers who would oblige.
As someone who isn’t a fan of either of them, allow me to inject some neutral observations: both drivers initiated contact to gain an advantage. Both contacts were similar but with two differences: (1) Edwards was able to recover from getting bumped while Keselowski wasn’t, and (2) collateral damage resulted because Keselowski wasn’t able to recover from Edwards driving into him.
As to the first, why was Edwards able to recover while Keselowki wasn’t? Is Edwards a better driver, with better control of the car? Or because the circumstances of his getting bumped were more conducive to his recovering (where it took place, difference in speed, angle of contact?) than the bump he gave Keselowski? Or did Keselowski crash because he tried to hold the car on line rather than try to recover from the bump? To me, if both drivers commit pretty close to the same act, I’m not coming down on one harder than the other.
As for the second, ANY time a driver loses control of his car – whether the result of a bump, a flat tire or any other reason – there is the possibility of serious collateral damage, whether it be contact with another car or with the crowd. The question is whether the bumping driver does so with the knowledge that the contact would lead to a major crash. To me, Edwards didn’t set out to wreck Keselowski, he bumped him with the intention of making Keselowski loose. It wasn’t a given that Keselowski would have lost control, it wasn’t a given that Keselowski losing control would lead to the crash it did (as opposed to at Talledega, where getting someone loose in the pack is all but guaranteed to cause some major collateral damage). So I give both a pass.
I don’t think NASCAR will do anything. Public opinion has been enough, and pretty equally split. I continue to prefer to let the drivers settle things between them, off track would be best. My opinion on this incident is very simple, it’s never ok to dump a guy for a win & I frown on deliberate violent wrecking. Any other kind of contact is fair game.
This feud kind of reminds me of a high school fist fight. Kids pick, pick and pick on each other until the showdown. Neither kid intends to kill the other, both just want to stand their ground. Fair enough! Its not until one awkward blow leads to a serious or fatal head injury for the opponent (BK), or worse yet an innocent bystander (fans). That tiny disclaimer print on the back of a fans ticket stub won’t mean squat in protecting Carlos.
I say let’s have a 3 race moratorium parking Busch-wackers (uh Nation-Wide-Wackers) from the Jr series.
Okay, I’m not a fan of either guy. But….
Brad did a classic racing move. Bump n’ run is a normal racing move, and when done correctly loosens up a driver just enough to make it past. Carl shoved Brad out of the way – INTENTIONALLY BY HIS ADMISSION!
Racing takes a finesse that a non-fan doesn’t understand. Carl is like a charging bull.
And I have no doubt that someone is going to be killed if this doesn’t stop – and I don’t mean “have at it”, I mean stupid, dangerous moves at 200 mph.
Steve,
Did you watch the race? Have you seen the wreck? Carl did not bump Brad. You do not cut in to someone on the front straight to move someone out of the way.
Parking the Nationwide-Wackers will not solve this problem. What it will do is empty the stands, and drop the TV raitings.
I agree that if Brad was a better driver he could over come the hits/bumps from Carl and not wreck as bad. Beating and banging is racing plain and simple.
The only drivers I see taking it to the extreme is Carl and possibly Kevin Harvick. “Rubbing is Racing” is part of the sport and fans expect to see it.
I believe Carl would have taken out ANY driver to win the race. You heard him. It was HIS race.. not Trevor Bayne’s, Paul Menard’s, Brad’s, or anyone else who might have had a chance. I felt Brad had a slightly better car and probably would have won the race. Carl knew that as well…and wrecked him.
Heck, even I can win a race if I wreck everybody whose better than me. Yeah, I know Brad bumped him but I think he would have put him in the wall anyway.
His post race interview bothered me. The reality is he didn’t deserve the race ( no one does), it wasn’t his, he didn’t even have the dominant car. It’s not over until you take the checkered flag. He seemed very out of touch…not good when you’re behind the wheel of a 3500 lb race car.
NASCAR needs to penalize him. They won’t suspend him because of sponsor obligations but at least take points. Probation is a joke and besides….what is it really?? This is not the first time with Carl. He was driving this way long before NASCAR said “boys, have at it.” I’m hoping they will be a little proactive and let this man know it’s NOT all about you.
Its hard to tell what happened. Because there are 2 different video angles and they each show it diferently. 1 shows that it’s Carl’s fault and the other shows that it’s Brad’s fault. However, Carl did say he wasn’t gonna let Brad take the win from him. So… we wait for NASCAR to make their decision.
We all know if Jimmie Johnson caused this wreck NASCAR wouldn’t do a thing! NASCAR loves Jimmie so they would never penalize him. They did in 2006 only because he hadn’t won 4 in a row. Which NASCAR gave to him!!! TC is gonna ask me why I think this because he did last time I posted a Jimmie comment!
Anyway they would never penalize Junior either because if they did Junior Nation would come and murder Brian France in his sleep! LOL
Since Mr Ed admitted crashing BK, which anyone watching could plainly see, I think it would be great if each driver that suffered damage from Carls roid rage would pick a track and make sure Mr Ed didn’t see the checkers. Wonder if he would get the message? I’ll be in Atl and hope to see Carl crash.
Remember Carl going after Kenseth after the Martinsville race a couple of years ago? Why is anyone surprised he’s an angry jerk?
I was a fan until he raised his fist to Kenseth. It was deliberate and ugly, after everyone was in civilian clothes.
Who is going to make this man get the help he needs? Nascar better take him off the track until he gets it.
Journo- I thought NASCAR already made their decision and decided it was just hard racing.
Rubbin’ is racin’. Yes! Love that part of the sport. Wouldn’t have it any other way. The “bump and run” is cool, especially when it works. Love it as well. Intentionally driving down into someone who is passing you for the win and knowingly wrecking him, and then bragging about it, is totally wrong. Thank God for safer cars and safer barriers. Otherwise, Brad would be permanently maimed or possibly dead. For all his big toothy grins, and all-American boy image, Carl Edwards is a spoiled, immature brat who needs to grow up. His race? His win? His stupid back flip after what he did? Very, very scary attitude problem here, Carl. I agree with Brad’s Dad who said he’s not going to allow Carl to kill his boy. Have at it, boys? I’m all for that, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. I think Carl needs to be fined points or be suspended for a race or two. Not just for what he did, but for being so blatant about what he did in the after race interview. It will be interesting to see what action Nascar takes, if any.
nasgal- with all due respect, parking both will in fact solve this problem, if they are not on track. At least at the NW level. They need some bonding time together. No…seriously.
as for Carl’s hit on BK? I don’t care who is driving the #22, not wrecking was not an option. There was no saving it.
Just like the Logano/Harvick Pocono incident, the “that race was mine” attitude is lamo.
I wish Sorenson would have beat Cousin Carl to the line and his net position differential, before vs after the crime, would have been “0″. Something tells me CE would have been doing backflips even if he would have finished 2nd to Reed. The win was merely a bonus.
Yup Neon, we are in agreement that neither of these drivers is a favorite of ours.
I have thought about this situation, and maybe it is the safety of the cars that is causing these wrecks. If I am not mistaken ( which is very possible ) The great Dale Earnhardt was the last man to die during an actual NASCAR race ( it still makes me feel sad and miserable to think of that week. NASACR racing HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME ).
Have cars and tracks become so safe that drivers are not really worried the human damage? This leaves the aspect of a smaller team losing a good car, which it can not afford. Aflac!!!!
Maybe NASCAR should require a driver, if he is found to be at fault (by a jury of his NASCAR peers) to replace the cars he wrecked up, IF he wrecked them on purpose. Carl basicly admited that he wrecked poor lil Brad on purpose.
If nothing is done I dont know where this will all lead. It could become ( if you ever watched as a kid ) “Speed Racer” where the evil drivers ALWAYS wrecked the heck out the good guys. Will NASCAR become that? Will NASCAR become like the movie “ROLLERBALL” or “Death Race 2000″ ? Casual fans may want that BS, but as an auto racing fan I DO NOT. I want the autos driven by talented athletes to decide the winnner, I dont want to watch a “video game” type of race where they just wreck others to win.
One of my favorite drivers these days is Mark Martin. He is one of the most talented athletes on the track, and has too many 2nd place finishes (races and championships) to show for it, and some people like to insult him for that, BUT HE A CLASS ACT.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION- make driver pay for damage.
After an incident like this there should be a 33 person jury summoned. It should be made up of serious, time invested NASCAR folks. Select them from the top (Helton) to pit crew (Journo/T.C.) down to the truck series (Hornaday). Have at least 17 drivers with 5 years of track experience, and choose 5 other NASCAR folks randomly.
Let these folks watch the footage and if it is deemed that a driver wrecked up good cars on purpose, then the gulity driver must pay for the damage. That would at least force drivers to make it look good when they “dirty” wreck someone to grab a win(or allowing someone else to grab a win ….. cuz there is some of that going too).
I KNOW.. I KNOW .. this is a pie in the sky idea, and it will never happen, but I love good racing ….. and rubbin is racin … but wrecking someone like Carl did is not really racing (NO MATTER who started it months/years ago).
Back in the good old days, before NASCAR became all P.C., Brad K. would have come out of the care center, into victory lane and commenced to kick Carl’s tail. Both crews would have joined the scrum and the fans would have gone wild with delight!
Carl forgot the famous line spoken by the late-great, Dale Earnhardt, “I didn’t mean to hit him so hard. I just wanted to rattle his cage a bit.”
Enough is enough. What Edwards did was criminal assault. The local DA should have him arrested and bring charges for assault. Keselowski should bring civil actions against Edwards, Edwards Owner and NASCAR. And the other drivers gotten into Keselowski should do the same.
Yes, in sports you accept that things happen. You cannot sue someone for a “normal” foul. However, there is a limit to acceptability as there is a limit to what amounts to self-defense. Constantly, wrecking someone in a way that not only puts that individual but also other drivers or like in Atlanta spectators into danger is not acceptable risk. This is reckless. If someone would have died, Edwards should have been charged for voluntary manslaughter since he intentionally used his car as a weapon and was reckless about the foreseeable consequences.
By now everybody should now what these boneheaded behavior by Edwards can result in. The defense of, I did not mean to, does not fly anymore. Nobody who speeds on the road any kills someone can use this defense. Why should a NASCAR driver be able to do it when he has already killed someone before.
These controversies will maybe bring a couple more spectators to the races in the short term. However, what will it do in the long term? If Edwards motivation will stand, everybody with a slower car will in the future be allowed to wreck a faster car “because that is the only way to make it fair”. After all. isn’t it an unfair advantage that someone else has a faster car, when the own team is working so hard too?
Why not just flip coins for the win?
Crazy Carl is nothing more than a childish bully. He thinks he is a he-man and no one will challenge him. Where is Jimmy Spencer when we need him? Or for that matter any male who walks the walk and not just talks the talk.
Neon: nice to see you declare the bump as un-savable. I’ve only been watching NASCAR for a few years but I have seen many drivers save cars that were in way worse shape than BK was… just as I’ve seen lots of drivers lose cars that weren’t in anywhere near as much trouble. the outcome was a result of the bump… and BK’s response to getting bumped, a different response may have saved the car. Remember when Busch bumped Johnson, the announcers marveled at Johnson’s ability to save the car… a different driver may have lost it just as BK did.
And FWIW, I’m with Marcus, it is hard to tell how much was a result of CE changing his line and driving into BK or BK drifting into CE’s line and CE not yielding any space. CE’s postrace comments are applicable to either, this isn’t as clear cut as it was at Atlanta, where we could see CE’s hands move the wheel to the right.
Sorry…I just have to laugh at the people that are trying to defend Carl by saying the contact might be BK’s fault and even that the car was savable. Carl was quite open and frank in victory lane that he intentionally wrecked BK. Shoot, Carl did not even pretend for a minute that it was accidental. Maybe you folks should go listen to his interview again.
@Marcus-killing is not Carl’s motto. Seriously? No, seriously? He is not going to kill someone because that is not his motto? Wow, that is out there.
As you will probably gather, but for the record, I am not a fan of CE. But, I am also not a fan of BK. I think both of them are complete jerks. They might be talented drivers, but they are jerks.
I am also not a fan of the bump & run. If you have to bump somebody to get around them, then you don’t deserve the spot. PERIOD. You are either too slow, your pit stop was bad, your strategy was inferior, you qualified poorly, you made a mistake, maybe you are not good enough to out maneuver them…whatever. If you cannot get around, that is your fault. Bumping takes no skill. Passing should require skill. Likewise, the leader should not block.
Now, we need to go back to Journo’s question…was this too much? Very simply, yes.
While I do not like “the bump”, there is a substantial difference between “moving someone up the track” and this incident. And I will not even go into raising a fist at Matt, running into Jr’s door under caution, BK @ Atlanta, grabbing Harvick by the throat, etc.
Moving someone gets them out of the groove and costs them the spot…maybe 2 or 3. It does not destory the car. It does not put anyone in harm’s way. Not the recipient. Not fans. Not other competitors. This particular incident put a lot of people in harm’s way…negligently and intentionally.
To date, we have been lucky nobody has been seriously hurt. But someday that luck is going to run out. Just like in the ’90s when there were lots of serious injuries and deaths in open-wheel racing. Several NASCAR industry folks declared their cars safer and “you would never see that happen here.”
There but for the grace of God go I. Your luck ran out and you lost several drivers. We have been lucky.
Just like Mid East relations, “boys having at it” is only going to escalate. And now, any one of the guys that had their cars destroyed Saturday have a very legitimate reason to escalate the payback to Carl. Hopefully, NASCAR will show some leadership before our luck runs out.
Neon,
Parking these 2 drivers maybe an option, but to keep all the Cup drivers out of the Nationwide races is not.
I sell NASCAR branded memorablilia, and let me just say, I have more Edward’s sales this Monday morning than Keselowski sales.
I am not ashamed to say I love a good NASCAR driver battle. Do I want to see anyone get hurt… absolutly not. I was a Davey Allison fan, then a Ernie Irvan fan, I know what it is like to see your driver injured and mourn a death.
I agree that frustration should be taken out in the garage face to face and less with a car, but banging while battling for a win, is part of the racing deal. That excitement and danger is part of this sport, and that is what these drivers and teams understand and accept as part of racing NASCAR or any other motorsports.
Journo, How do you think Carl and Brad are viewed in the Nationwide garage after Gateway?
I watched the Talladega and Atlanta wrecks, and I’ve read some about the Nationwide paint rubbing from this year. I watched BK on the restart lap try to take Carl out, not just “bump & run”. BK “bumped”, and then BK kept pushing for a second to actually push Carls car, amazing that Carl held on to it. Now with all the adrenaline flowing in a restart and a tight race, clean up till BK decided to move Carl out of the way. BK definitely made the decision thinking Carl would be out of the way. Carl had the experience to drive thru the “bump/push”, and stay on the gas. BK was well aware that his “bump” may cause an accident with the whole field right on thier back bumpers. How many wrecks has BK caused this year due to exactly the same type of maneuver? If someone were keeping a record of who has caused the most wrecks, and the most damage,BK would probably be at the top of the list. Bk seemed to hold an amazingly tight line all around the track, except for the 4th turn on the last lap, were his car “drifted out wide, like in a blocking fashion. In the heat of the moment, Carl held his line and just drove thru him, as the oppertunity presented itself. If Brad was really in the throttle, how could Carl have motored into him?(faster car maybe?) all this with a tight bunched up field right behind them. I used to race dirt bikes, and they don’t have a roll cage, but if you get in someone’s way, they will run over you. Morale of the story,if you “bump” someone on green checker restart,expect to get it back.
Let me start by saying I don’t care for CE or BK. But, I’m obviously too new to the sport. I don’t understand why it’s ok to “bump” someone out of the way to win, but it’s not ok to “knock” that someone out the way for a win (I wanted Kyle Busch to wreck BK last year in a nationwide race for the exact same thing, he started to – but backed out of it). I get that there were a lot of damaged cars, but I blame that on letting them race to the checkers. There was nowhere for the 22 to go (both inside and outside barriers). They should have thrown the yellow and frozen the field. Then BK would not have taken the big hit and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
To a great extent what the fans think will be academic if AFLAC decides it doesn’t want a mugger as a representative and ends up leaving the sport, in which case the loser will be the sport, not just Carl and Rousch. I hope NASCAR takes some action to rein Carl in, but regardless I think some of the senior drivers, and even owners, need to talk to Carl and tell him that he shouldn’t be doing payback if he can’t do it without risking serious injury to his victim or others. How many times can Carl cause a serious wreck and not seriously hurt someone? You can only be lucky so often.
whine whine whine-for crying out loud just let em race or has everyone forgot dale earnhart and terry labonte?
Like many people on here, Im not a fan of either driver. I can take ‘em or leave ‘em. With that being said, I think Carl Edwards needs a good flogging.
What Brad Kesolowski did was a very common move, especially that late in the race. He drove in deep, did a bump and run..just enough to move Carl but not wreck him. If anyone noticed Carl was able to continue on and be side-by-side with Brad, until Brad was able to clear Edwards for good. Or so we thought.
So instead of reciprocating the act, Edwards took it to an insane level yet again. Carl was wrong. He constantly takes his emotions too far..not just with Brad. This is racing….contact on track is constant and especially on the final lap for the win! It is obvious that Carl cannot be raced against. Do drivers just avoid him at all costs? If Carl cannot handle being raced and being beat, he may need to find another job. His antics would not be tolerated on some dirt track anywhere in this country. His a** would be handed to him repeatedly.
How can anyone compare Edwards to Earnhardt? That would insinuate that Carl is good….he isnt.
Do you remember 1986, Dale doing the same to DW @ the old Richmond Fairgrounds Track? Hooked him in the RR. Most of you have never driven in a race. If you let somebody move you and don’t retaliate, he will do it to you every time.
old saying (updated)..
I dont care what they are posting about me on the blogs, as long as they say it a lot and spell my name correctly”
————————————
If lack of interest was the concern, NASCAR is loving this.
Aflac, NASCAR, Carl and Brad are all selling more products this week, not to mention how many more eyes will be watching the Brickyard 400 on SUNDAY!!SUNDAY!!SUNDAY!! BE THERE!!!
Just wanted to share this with everyone. It’s a new ESPN commercial featuring the Brad K/Edwards feud. Funny stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgeoMOsMDA
I thought it was perfectly fine. Payback is, what they call, a b*tch. Brad deserves to be put in his place every single time he drives like an idiot.
Love the commercial T.C. As a Edwards fan it brought a smile to my face! Anyway guess what this weekend is… INDY!!! INDY!!! INDY!!! I LOVE INDY!!! Garry I wish I could be there. However I am definetaly watching on TV! Wouldn’t miss it for the world! INDY TIME BOYS!!!
I agree with you 100%, abovetheshop. Exactly.
1) Only non-crash contact truly helps this sport. Crash contact diminishes the sport because the casual fan looks and says to themselves “How can these be the best drivers in the world? They hit each other and then they crash, no different than what happens on freeways across the nation all day, every day.”
2) I’ve said it before and will say it again despite the pummeling I took (elsewhere) for this opinion: malicious intent that is openly admitted to is litigation and perhaps even criminal charges by authorities waiting to happen if/when someone gets seriously hurt or killed. And no volume of disclaimer language on the backs of tickets or in contracts is going to prevent it.
3) The educated fan does not want to see this stupid BS. Both of these guys need to understand just how damaging their actions are to the NASCAR brand. Tell us the truth educated fans: would you rather see this stupidity or would you rather see the recent bump and runs done right by Johnson and Busch?
I’ve also said this before and will say it again: if particular drivers are incapable of bumping like Johnson and Busch where they don’t crash the other guy, then perhaps those incapable drivers simply don’t belong…
You didn’t add my comment I sent yesterday.
Most of you haven’t ever driven a race car. If you let someone shove you out of the way and don’t retaliate he will do it to you every time.
Most of you probably have forgotten Dale doing the same thing to DW at Richmond Fairgrounds in 1986. Hook em in the RR.
Randy: Look up dude, comment #37 is from you…
Sorry, it didn’t show on my screen earlier.
Thanks for your forum, I enjoy reading it.
FWIW, I do come from a racing background. It was the two wheel variety and maybe thats why I’m so adamantly against intentionally crashing people because that was simply not part of our culture. We all knew the consequences were way too certain, so people rarely ever “broke the code”.
But that aside, crashing is simply not something that improves the NASCAR product offering. All the more so for intentional crashing. Again I ask the educated fan: would you rather see Johson and Busch or would you rather see Carl and Brad?
We had someone chime in about Busch and Johnson that said his girlfriend knows nothing of racing but immediately saw just how brilliant the driving was.
I have my four year old daughter who also knows nothing of racing telling me “they aren’t very good are they daddy” when she sees crashes (and not at my prompting
)
MS – ditto. I enjoy watching the British stadium motorcycles. Good, close racing. Bikes are sideways. Dirt flying. Riders are really working it. BUT, if you cause a wreck, it is quite possible the victim continues on to the next heat and you are done for the night.
I would much rather see 2-3 guys running side-by-side for lap after lap than a bump & run. Or worse, the debacle at Sears Point a few weeks ago. That was a joke.
@Garry – old saying (updated)..
I dont care what they are posting about me on the blogs, as long as they say it a lot and spell my name correctly”
uhhh…Tiger Woods, Jesse James, BP….I am thinking they wish people would quit talking about them.
If Ironhead was still around and had seen Carl’s actions Saturday, I suspect Carl would not have gotten an attaboy from Ironhead the next time they crossed paths in the garage – instead I suspect Carl would have been told to clean up his act before he hurts someone, bad.