February 25th, 2010 
Journo I know it’s a little early to start talking about the potential changes to the 2011 schedule, but why not? With California in our rear-view mirror and Atlanta now right in front of us, this season’s schedule presents us with two potential casualties for next year.
The ongoing saga of Kentucky Speedway looks to finally be coming to a close. After years of litigation and rulings in NASCAR’s favor, the former owners of the race track just had the US Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit turn down their request to reconsider the case. With that, the United States Supreme Court remains their last option for appeal. The court receives nearly 10,000 petitions to hear cases every year and selects generally fewer than 100 of those cases. That staggering number means this last ditch effort is a long shot.
Even still the group of former owners is fragmented (one side wanting to continue, the other not wanting to continue), so the process could continue. If that happens Kentucky Speedway will likely have to wait one more season, as NASCAR has held to not giving a race to the track so long as they are tied up in the court system.
Should this thing come to a close though, Bruton Smith and the rest of the folks at Speedway Motorsports are going to have a tough decision to make: which track loses its date?
From the get go it’s fair to assume Bristol, Las Vegas, Infineon, Charlotte and Texas probably won’t lost their dates. Smith has said in the past New Hampshire wouldn’t lose a date, but who knows. The other viable and perhaps most likely candidate is Atlanta. There was a lot of talk about this last year and I think it remains on top of the heap.
Not too far away from Kentucky is Kansas Speedway owned by the International Speedway Corporation. The track along with Penn Gaming is planning on building a hotel and casino on-site. Last week they gained approval for the project (and a gaming license) from the Kansas Racing and Gaming Commission. Now that the project is moving forward, ISC has to make the same decision SMI does: who loses that second date?
In January ISC’s Chief Operating Officer Roger VanDerSnick told USA Today the financial fortunes of Auto Club Speedway, Phoenix International Raceway and Michigan International Speedway would all be evaluated as they try to decided where Kansas’s second date would come from. In other words, they’re the most vulnerable. Martinsville, Richmond, Talladega and Daytona all also have two dates.
The specter of Martinsville losing it’s second date has been on the minds of everyone since Darlington lost its venerable Southern 500. I suspect though with NASCAR’s attempt to recapture the past, this move would not be their brightest. I picture fan revolt, the likes NASCAR has never seen.
So with that who should lose its date? Phoenix still does pretty well and certainly provides compelling racing. Michigan, though the racing isn’t always the greatest, does a great job packing the stands – that was quite evident last year. That leaves us with California, which has lackluster racing, ratings and attendance.
Despite Gillian Zucker’s best efforts at propagating the great things about her track, it just isn’t resonating. Check out NASCAR.com writer Joe Menzer’s take on California and Zucker’s “optimistic” attendance figures.
We still have time for time for things to change and NASCAR is a ways from creating the 2011 schedule, but changes could very well be upon us. With that said what do you think? Should Kentucky and Kansas get dates? Where should they come from?
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Journo,
what do you guys of the set up up at Kansas speedway?
I am not asking about the boring track layout, I mean how do you like the way it sits at intersecting highways ( designed for easy in/out), and how the shopping / nighlight life area by the track has boomed. A lot of national chain restaurants (and some local ones too) have set up many new places to eat by the track.
I wonder what a pro, such as yourself (who sees a lot of different set ups) thinks about how they did with this track, and around it. I suppose the inside is the same every where, but I wonder what you think about the outside.
That brings up another question …. maybe best asked on the weekly section…What do you guys do at night when you visit a city? Do you hang inside the track, or do you check out the city? How much time do you have for that sort of thing?
side note
I will point out that Kansas City is unlike any other city in the U.S. The metro area / city sits right on the state line, which divides the tax base and goverment base into different areas, which is really not a good thing … but besides the leagl issues …. it is all the same place.
The metro area is divided into Kansas City Missouri and Kansas City Kansas, and several other subCities and then there is Johnson county Kansas which is made up 6 seperate cities, then you add in the North side of the city. Do you guys fly into the downtown airport? It is always interesting fun to drive by it on race weekend, to check out all the jets.
As far as the city goes, it is one metro area divided….. but facts be known…. people cross the state line, city lines and county lines every day, many times. It is all one city. There is a road called State line, but there is no wall or anything ; ) I have lived on both sides of the line, and it is all the same …EXCEPT for the screwed up tax base issues. The wealthier folks live in Johnson county and the …..( well, I wont get into it ) …but the Royals and Chiefs are in Missouri, but in recent years it is the Kansas side has competed with the Missouri side on many issues from gambling to horse racing etc etc… Kansas has beat out the Mo. side on several issues. All businesses here compete for the entire metropolitan area’s dollar. Different cities offer different incetives to developers. For instance KCKS offered the best incentives to build ashiny new NASCAR race track.
One piece of advice to race fans, without insider connections, coming to a NASCAR race here is….. be sure to obtain a reserved parking pass, upfront, close. The track parking may be free, but you can walk 15 miles ( 1 miles ) from your car to track …. if you arrive late.
as far as your question….
I am not sure Kansas needs another date. There was a lot interest when they first sold the seat licenses etc etc …but now that it has settled down, I am not sure we can handle anothe full race. Maybe they should add the seats they have talked about, or maybe put in lights for a night race. As it is we have several races during the year already with the IRL, ARCA etc etc….
I am curious what others have to say if they have visited the Kansas track and area. I know they bult this track with fans in mind. e.g. from seating area the track has some of the betst sight lines anywhere ,and not tom ention not to mention the track has shortest lines for the ladiesroom which I ahve ever had to wait for her ; ) They knew what they were doing when they built Kansas Speedway
In conclusion ….if we do get another race, I would NOT advise them to take a race from a place like Martinsville, or any other historic track. Those old tracks are much more interesting than the tri-oval set up.
Garry: The local planning folks who helped put in Kansas Speedway did a good job, I think. There is a ton of stuff right around the track, and it is very easy to get in and out of. You can’t beat two freeways intersecting right near the track either. It certainly is better then places like Pocono and New Hampshire that only have one road in, and one road out.
In terms of what we do during race weekends outside of the track, it depends on how much time we have. The “A” team guys (road mechanics, etc.) will usually get to see a little more then the “B” team guys (race day only). I have gotten the opportunity in the past to check out downtown KC, and there are some great bars and restaurants down there.
And your question about the airport, when I’ve flown to KC, we usually fly into KCI, not the downtown airport.
Great piece, and I couldn’t agree more. Give Kansas its second date in 2011, and give at least one date to Kentucky. They’re superior tracks, located in places where NASCAR has both a following and a bright future.
Kansas does NOT need a second date!!!! It’s not a great race track.
Pocono and California need to be removed from the schedule.
Michigan only needs one race.
Phoenix only needs one race, and just barely that.
Martinsville needs two races.
Darlington needs 2 races.
Chicago sucks get rid of it. Honestly, does ANYONE actually enjoy that race?
I’d like to see a cup race at Kentucky
Iowa speedway would provide a great cup race.
The final race of the season should be at Daytona. It will never happen though. To many variables that cannot be controlled. Miami is a safe, boring track where drivers can stay out of each others way and cruise to the title. What a crappy way to end the year.
whoops..I did not realize i typed out quite that much…. : ) always feel free to cut it down to size if I get to wordy. I will strive to keep be briefer.
Interesting stuff Journo, I have heard about places like Bristol and Pocano having limited access, and that is why they liked the set up at Kansas. September in Kansas is a nice time of the year to have a race.
Keep up the great work.
Everyone thinks that this Kansas track packs them in but the truth is that 13 tracks on the schedule and some with 2 dates pack more people in than Kansas does each race date go to Jayski track attendance page to verify this fact. I don’t know about anyone else I do not go to a race for the night life I go to watch a race if I want night life I’ll go somewhere for the night life and not buy a race ticket. I don’t get this big hoopla about Kansas City because it is building a casino on the property this is not going to make the racing any better on the asphalt they call a race track. No race track should ever get a second date if the racing there sucks period.
Agree with Bobby#7Fan. But I’d:
-Remove both races from Fontana
-Remove one race from Michigan
-Remove one race from Pocono
-Remove one race from New Hampshire
-Remove one race from Phoenix
-Remove the race at Chicago
-Add race to Iowa
-Add race to Irwindale
-Add race to Rockingham
-Move the Southern 500 back to Darlington
-Shorten the season by the other 4 races
Re: #4 I agree with you for most race changes, especially one at Iowa Speedway. I live halfway between Ia. and Chicago, and when Chi. came up with their “preferred seat licenses”, requiring all their races, I crossed them off my list pronto. Darlington may be old and hot, but it is the best driver’s speedway on the circuit. Talent usually takes precedence there.
Despite my defense of California (see Ask The Insiders below), I don’t think it needs 2 dates. I think attendance at California has been severly hurt by moving it next to the Vegas date. They’re competing for the same crowd and most bailed on California in favor of Vegas.
I’ve heard Atlanta is on the chopping block when Kentucky gets it race.
In my fantasy world, California should lose both dates, giving one to Darlington and the other to Rockingham. But in the real world…I don’t have a good solution. California definitely deserves to lose a date, but no race track should gain a date just based on a new casino. That’s absurd. I’m fine with Kentucky getting a date, but Atlanta is my favorite track and I certainly don’t want it to lose a date!
I may be slightly biased because I live in the Martinsville area, but we shouldn’t lose a date either. I agree with Journo that if they were to take a second date away from Martinsville, there would be an incredible backlash from fans. NASCAR can’t afford that. That’s why I feel much better about us keeping both dates than I felt a few years ago.
JPE, I’m with you about cutting the schedule, but disagree about cutting out BOTH Fontana dates. I can see getting rid of one (it’s the one track I go to), but this is a huge market – let’s see what happens with one date per year before shutting it down.
Also, would returning Labor Day to Darlington mean eliminating an Atlanta race? Giving Darlington two dates?
Irwindale would be terrific, but I think it has about 5,000 seats.
Commercialism around the track only means more coin to park.
Like Doug in CA said yesterday and myself last week about Fontana. Study the “how” the racing is going on and you’ll see some good stuff. I admit that sometimes you have to be “at the track” to capture the true essence and see what “you” choose to see. All the harshness towards Fontana, Pocono and even Michigan means fans are not studying the styles and tactics and merely concentrating the spectacle (or lack thereof). Those who missed Rockingham days missed a treat. They messed Homestead up w/ progressive banking.
All tracks should test the driver and the teams with individual elements, not just provide a generic ribbon of asphalt.
I cannot speak towards Kentucky as I have only witnessed IRL on TV.
The one that baffles me is NASCAR not using the Daytona road course for July. Since Grand Am runs the Paul Revere the night before, all the motor homes in the infield are already in their respective places. 43 Cup cars on the long course? At night? That race might draw even more viewers than Danica in an ARCA race.
I wonder if NASCAR looks at this strictly from a tickets sales point of view? Or will they be more sentimental on the next reshuffle. If it is strictly ticket sales maybe they can let the fans decide with thier wallets. Tell the fans if the race sells out it will stay, if not it will be moved.
If it is sentimental, I would love to see the 2nd Cali race shifted back to Darlington. I never liked the decision to take that race from Darlington. I can understand doing it based on tickets sales (and weather), but suggesting taking all races away from a new(er) track just seems kind of spiteful …. anyway …. Maybe if they drop some hints that Darlington could get a 2nd race, if it sells out, then the fans in that area would leap at the chance to get their race back. The Darlington races are always my favorite to watch. That crazy egg shape makes for great racing, and it takes a talented driver to try to tame her.
I am no homer. I do not only root for / support what suits me best personally, as it seems some are. Sure I would love 2 races here, but I know this is a business …. anyway … As I said above, I dont think Kansas needs another race at this point in time. Maybe they should just add lights and more seats at my home track, and then see how that goes, and if people hate having other types of fun besides watching a race, then
Remove a race from Phoenix, Fontana, New Hampshire (make the one remaining race there 400 laps); replace with Road America in the chase and for the two other slots add some tracks in rotation like Rockingham, Kentucky, Memphis, Milwaukee, Pike’s Peak, Iowa, Indy Road course, North Wilksboro even.
Ross, Fontana’s attendance problems in February may be because it is scheduled 1-2 weeks away from the Winternationals at the LA County Fairgrounds in Pomona 20 miles to the west. Race fans may have already spent their money for the drags and may not be able to afford to do both, like they may have in the past, so do away with the Feb. event.
But that leads to where to hold event #2. Weather played a factor not only at ‘The Rock’, but also at Richmond in both the 1/2 mile and 3/4 mile configurations, so who knows. Tough scheduling decisions will need to be made and some markets maybe need to have an event dropped, but who. Certainly, a venue doesn’t need a second event simply because it has a casino on the property, that makes no sense IMHO.
Jim (#14) raises a very interesting point. Could NASCAR rotate dates among several tracks? Does it have to be (more or less) the same every year? Why not run Iowa every 2-3 years in rotation with Kentucky, Road America, Rockingham, etc?
As for North Wilkesboro, I saw some pictures recently – it may be too late – it looks like the track itself is coming apart, and the buildings look like they’re ready to collapse – some already have.
I think when Nascar went to 2 dates with alot of these tracks, its because there weren’t enough tracks to fill the schedule for 30-36 races. Now there are more tracks than race dates, so maybe the time has come for one race date a year at each track and give the remaining races to tracks like Rockingham, Iowa, and others that are deserving.
#4 and #7. Remove Chicago? It has one race and until last year, sold out every race since it opened in 2001. Now they have taken a reactive approach to last year’s disappointing crowd and will now sell NASCAR weekend seperately from the IRL/ARCA/Truck weekend and I’d be surprised if they don’t sell the cup weekend out this year. I’m biased since I live in Chicago but I’ve been to 12 other cup tracks and I hardly believe that Chicago is the most boring – at least it now has multiple grooves. What is so much better about a less-banked Kentucky track? I do agree that a major overhaul in the schedule is necessary and Iowa and Kentucky are 2 additions I would support, being that they would be 2 new markets. I think the question is whether or not a track that currently has 2 races would be financially viable if it were to lose one of those (i.e. Pocono). That being said, I’d put California, Pocono and Atlanta (for attendance reasons even though it is one of my favorite tracks) at the top of the chopping block to lose a race.
I am convinced that Bruton intended to kill North Wilkesboro, has done a pretty good job of it, and will do everything in his power to make sure it never has another national series NASCAR race. Just a few years ago he was asking $12,000,000 for N. W., and a year or maybe 2 later sold Rockingham for about $4,500,000. I just so happens that N.W. is just about midway between his Charlotte and Bristol tracks and roughly 1.5 to 2 hours from each.
I live in CA .Remove one date from fontana and leave phoenix alone every time I drive to that track,and live 13 hours away, they have a great nascar crowd and filled the seats in the stands. Remove one date from pocono