February 22nd, 2010 
T.C. Following their usual quick exit from Cup races, the #66 Prism Motorsports team of Dave Blaney was met with a little surprise on Sunday at California. Lee Spencer of FoxSports.com first reported about Blaney’s Toyota being taken by NASCAR for inspection. Once the team was out of the race, the #66 was chosen as NASCAR’s “random” to be inspected following the race.
In case you aren’t aware of the normal post race inspection procedure, NASCAR usually takes the winning car, plus a few others back to it’s R&D center in Concord, NC. There, the cars are thoroughly inspected to ensure they are legal, and then returned to the teams when the process is complete. For more on what goes on during these inspections, see this piece Dustin Long wrote last season.
What has some people talking about this particular random pull, is this is the first time a start and park car has been taken by NASCAR, and this now leaves Blaney’s team with only one car to compete with at Las Vegas (barring a miraculously quick inspection by NASCAR which nobody believes will happen). Spencer even questions NASCAR’s motives in her article, saying:
Is NASCAR attempting to send the message to “start and park” teams — those that enter a race primarily to collect a check and don’t always try to finish — not to stink up their show?
The answer is most likely yes, and no.
First, I believe NASCAR wants these teams to be aware that the sanctioning body is paying attention to them, even if all they plan on doing is running in the back for a few laps, and then parking. If these teams are breaking the rules to beat out other teams and get into the race, they need to be caught. They should be under the same scrutiny as everyone else. So there certainly is a message being sent.
On the other hand, while I know NASCAR isn’t particularly a huge fan of these teams, they understand that on some level they do serve a purpose and that there really isn’t much that can be done about their existence. Until the economy picks back up and companies return to racing sponsorships, these teams will have a place.
I also wanted to point something out about the level at which some of these start and park teams appear they can compete at.
Before his quick exit on Sunday, Blaney had qualified fifth and even led a few laps. But that performance is deceiving. Understand that these cars are built to do nothing but qualify. These teams do things like run light weight motor oils, light weight transmission oil, and light weight rear end grease to make sure there is as little resistance as possible in the drive trains. That way, the cars can run very fast for a few laps. But the problem with setting cars up like this, is they would never last an entire race. Those lighter weight oils and components would fail before the car made it to the end of 500 miles.
But because none of these teams plan to run more then a few laps, reliability doesn’t matter. When reliability does become an issue for these teams, many would never even qualify.
So here we are talking about the start and parkers again. Frankly, I don’t really even notice them anymore. They don’t affect the actual racing going on, and as long as they aren’t taking the spot of a legitimate team, I don’t care if they do what they do. I think most of the fans understand the game now, and just accept it for what it is.
It is nice to see though that NASCAR is willing to hold these teams to the same standards as all the others. If you show up, expect to be under the microscope, regardless of your intentions.
I do wish though that just one of these owners would be honest with everyone and just come out and say they are just in it for the money. It certainly would be a refreshing change from the usual “we’d race if we had money.”
Yeah, I’m sure you would.
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I think the biggest issue NASCAR had with this one is the “fleet” of S&P’s Prism had this week. I know calling 2 cars a “fleet” is a stretch, but it’s more than the usual 1-per-team. With 2 or 3 cars in each race, the S&P team could realistically make top-5 money for running 20% of the race.
This past week, they netted over $160K for a weak 74 laps between the 2 cars. Clint Bowyer, your 6th place finisher, netted $161K for logging all 250.
With the cut back on prize money and other sponsors leaving the sport (Miccosukee, Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, etc.) I think NASCAR was obligated to send a message that if you’re not in it for racing, don’t try to rob the teams that are.
On the other hand, while we all want 43 cars that are competitive, I don’t know if there are enough drivers out there to make that happen even if the equipment were good. So maybe in that respect, it’s getting the talent that doesn’t belong out there off the track. And that’s not a bad idea sometimes – Looking at you Stremme.
Keep up the good work guys.
I believe that start and park teams are stealing from the sport, however NASCAR isn’t really going to do anything about it. Although keep in mind that Prism Motorsports is a two-car start and park effort and that I believe will get NASCAR’s attention.
As for Dave Blaney’s #66, I believe NASCAR when they said it was a random pick, they found it interesting that a fifth place starting car that lead three laps and did 43 laps all of a sudden found themselves in the garage with a engine issue.
I just have to wonder if NASCAR finds that that engine isn’t broken, then what will NASCAR do? NASCAR does take engines and keep them in some cases, I wonder is this is a case?
Bottom line, as some people are calling Dave Blaney’s fifth place starting spot a “moral victory, I say Where’s the moral victory in a NASCAR start and park team ladies and gentlemen? That’s right, there isn’t one, just a fat paycheck.
Great comments T.C., this is all very interesting, I share your opinion on this issue.
“”Jonathan Howe
on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:33 pm
This past week, they netted over $160K for a weak 74 laps between the 2 cars. Clint Bowyer, your 6th place finisher, netted $161K for logging all 250. “”
You bring up more great points, esp that stat on equal money for less effort. What more needs to be said? except …
“”THEY” make rules, and people follow (massage) them”
I am not smart enough to know how to tweak the rules on how money is paid, but I suppose it should have something to do with more weighting towards total laps run. It is obvious that Clint Bowyer deserves more, after all, he is one of the REAL drivers out there “putting on the show”. He is racing to win. He is there to race 100% of the laps ( barring unforerseen race issues).
I have a lot of respect for the race car drivers ability to concentrate for 3-8 hours at high speeds, start to finish….. go speed racer go…. The ability to do that every weekend is somewhat amazing. The teams and pit crews who support that effort are also amazing. The toal team effort is what it is all about. A pit crew may not win you a race, but it sure can lose you a race. To win, you need to put it all together, start to finish and that is why they play the game, because on any given Sunday .. Sunday .. Sunday .. BE THERE!!! ; )
Maybe they need to adjust the money to give less motivation to S&P teams.
PS
I miss Dave Marcis, he was (is) one of the all time greats, he understood what it is all about.
I understand the thoughts behind the start and parks, but I really think a team running 2 cars is pushing the limit. I will give some teams the benefit of the doubt some of those teams would run the whole race if they could afford to, ie Baldwin racing and James Finch, so I see a team running 2 low budget teams to just earn a pay check stealing from the teams that if they could they would run longer into the race.
Re: your comment that these cars are set up only to qualify and can’t run a full race. Except for impound races (was California?), don’t all crews go with a qualifying set up and change over for the race? For example, given Knaus’s view that the ‘race starts on Friday’, why wouldn’t he use lightweight oils and so on for qualifying and change to something more durable for the final practice and race? I know they can’t change (or open?) engines, but aren’t fluids changeable?
The calculus the Blaneys use is the same for all teams: is the marginal benefit of staying on the track and racing hard worth the combination of the higher costs of doing so (tires and perhaps a full crew) and the risk that staying out destroys the car? For the Johnsons, the answer is yes. But for a whole bunch of cars, the answer is no, the added prize money for running more laps and a potential few places in the standings just isn’t enough (for Blaney on Sunday, running another 100 laps would have gotten him but a couple places higher finish and potentially another $10,000 or so – not enough to risk the car and engine for 100 laps). You want to eliminate start and parks, don’t make it harder for cars to get into the race, you need to make it more worthwhile for them to stick around until the end.
Steve: You are correct about teams making changes between the race and qualifying. Everyone has their tricks to run faster for qualifying. My point was, that when you don’t have to worry about running a 500 mile race, you can push your equipment that much further because it doesn’t have to last (which means lighter weight oils, and pushing engines and other components further). These teams will dedicate 100% of their shop, R&D, and track time working on their qualifying setup, whereas the competition is more focused on race setups.
Also, while I don’t believe anyone else is S&P’ing two cars in the Cup Series, I’m not sure how big of an issue this is to NASCAR. Teams have been S&P’ing multiple cars in the Nationwide and Truck Series for the last couple of seasons.
Teams should have to drive the whole race to make 100% of the pruse for their finishing spot. The only exception I would allow is for a car that wrecks out and cannot come back out on the track, as ruled by Nascar officials. If you come in 20th but are three laps down at a 250 lap race, you receive 98.8% of the 20th place purse money. If you come in 43 after only completing 26 laps of a 250 lap race, you receive 10.4% of 43rd place purse money. The leftover money should be redistributed to the NW & CWTS teams that run full seasons, but that’s just my opinion. I also think Nascar should have reduced Cup purses by about 30%, but the lower-tier series by a much lesser percentage, but again, just my opinion.
Easy math. Cars must reach distance/lap milestones to receive pay-out percentages.
Never mind. Because next rule would be, “top 35 in points are exempt from before mentioned rule.”
NASCAR might be taking a harder look at the #66 because someone tipped them off that it might have been a R&D test mule for MWR, not just because it was a S&P.
Just sayin’…….
With the rules as they are, I believe NASCAR should leave the S&P cars alone. The money just isn’t there for them, and we all know it. Maybe the field should be just the 35 fastest cars to start races, the rest go home. There are many options on this subject, and NASCAR has the hammer, so let it alone until they change something.
Michael: I like that idea a lot. 1/10th your winnings if you complete 1/10th the race.
However, if a start and parker is legitimately trying to just hang on to a spot in the races, with the dream of finding a full-time, full-race ride one day- I don’t want to punish that.
I’m torn. If they’re merely collecting a paycheck, and have zero ambition to run full races one day, they’re clogging up the field.
How many start and parkers actually DO want to run full-time/full-races?
And, yes, they absolutely should be randomly testing start and parkers. Cheating is bad- and often dangerous- no matter what your plans are.
I wonder how concerned NASCAR is at all about S&Pers considering a few races last year were perilously close to not fielding 43 cars without them.
There is an old saying that when a pig becomes a hog it gets slaughtered – and it seems to me that maybe the S&P’ers have been so obvious recently that they’ve finally attracted too much attention. There was D. Cope in the Bud Shootout and now a 5th place qualifier parking. Personally I have no problem with Joe Nemechek or Tommy Baldwin S&P’ing on occasion because I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they do intend to race as much as they can afford. However, based on what MSRP did in 2009 in N-wide, I have no reason to believe that Prism is in Cup for any reason other than to make money, not to race. Now I’m a Morgan Shepherd fan and biased since he got knocked out of some races in 2009 by S&P’ers like MSRP. At the same time, I think the only changes that should be made is to pay everyone in a race part of the prize money in tires and to pay something for each lap run.
Those complaining about the start and park guys aren’t getting it. If these guys were no namers and they showed up and did this, it is worthy of questioning, but these guys have been in the sport for a long time and if they had the means they would run the whole race. they just don’t have the funding and in order to stay in the sport, this is what they must do.
Take for instance the 36 team. He was a start and park last year. This season he has run both races. No start and park. It looks like the start and park last year is paying dividends this year. This is exactly what Blaney is trying to do. Start small and hopefully grow.
Nascar should look at themselves in the mirror if they have a problem with start and parkers. They take a large portion of the sponsors away from these teams with by using them as the official ___ or nascar.
Richard in N.C., fantastic post. You took a few of the arguments I was goint to make, so I’ll just add to them, plus add a few more I got up my sleave.
I approach the whole start and park debate from a few different angles. I think there are some unique cases, some viable, and others not so much.
Up until 2008, there were no start and parks, at least in the cup series. Then there were all these mergers, and that left an opportunity for the Tommy Baldwins, Joe Nemecheks, etc. of the world to run their own deals. I’m going to focus on these two guys for the time being.
Early on, I don’t think Joe had a sponsor but knowing Nemechek, I think it’s pretty clear that he wants to race and just isn’t able to, with few exceptions. Furthermore, he wasn’t pulling his stuff off the track 5-10 laps in. It seems to me he would use up a set of tires and a tank or two of gas, and pull his stuff off 40 or so laps in. Dude wants to race.
Baldwin had a sponsor at the beginning of 2008 and ran the first few races in their entirety. Then he missed a few shows, while he had sponsorship, and teams like Gunselman and Prism were making shows they clearly were only going to run 10 laps in. Had he made those few shows, who knows, he might have had those sponsors or others on board the whole season. After he didn’t make a few shows, sponsors left, and what other choice did he have than to join the start and parkers with limited funds.
I don’t have a problem with start and parks on 3 conditions: 1) you’re using it as platform to go racing full time in the near future; 2) you’re starting and park one car to keep another one racing; and 3) be a man and don’t pretend like it doesn’t happen or doesn’t exist.
Reason #1 someone has already mentioned. I think some of these teams that start and park really want to go racing someday, or were racing at one point and the well dried up. Tommy Baldwin falls under this category, Nemechek definitely, Finch has had him moments even when he had Miccosukee. Prism motorsports? The jury is still out. Where did the 64 and Gunselman go?
Reason #2 takes me back to an interview Brian Kesselowski gave during a Nationwide practice tellecast some time last season. He said something along the lines of “the 26 is our points car, but the 96 is our money maker.” Brian is clearly intent on start and parking the 96, and even the 92 this season it seems, in order for himself to race the 26, and be relatively competitive, to boot. Last I checked, he didn’t have much in terms of full time or part time sponsors on any of those cars. I’m cool with that. Granted this is the Nationwide series, but I wouldn’t have a problem with that going on in the Sprint Cup garage either, but that’s just me. If Parsons and Prism were using the 55 as a start and park in order to allow Blaney and the 66 to run the whole race, I think most people would be down. I think Baldwin is doing the same thing with 35, although Sauter didn’t attempt Daytona, I don’t think, and he DNQ’d for California. But if Tommy wants to do this all season, whether the 35 qualifies or not, and Bliss gets to race the whole time, by all means. Nemechek was doing this with the 97 at Daytona in the Nationwide and Cup side, but looks like that was the extent of it.
Reason #3, Parsons is guilty as charged here. I like Phil as a commentator, he adds some spunk to the Truck broadcasts, and works well with Allen and Waltrip. But I have not head his once make any mention of the phrase, “start and park,” during any of those telecasts, even while seemingly 1/3 of the truck field is a start and park, it seems. Marty Reid, during his Nationwide telecasts, points out any time there is a start and park, but I guess he does that because he’s not affiliated with any of them, right? Ok, so be coy during your broadcast Phil, I get that, but don’t blow smoke up anyone’s butt when your car gets confiscated. You really have intentions of racing one day Phil, really? One need to look no further at Dave Blaney’s body language any time he’s done an interview the last two seasons to know damn well, they’re not going racing any time soon. That’s too bad, because I like Dave, and I think he’s got some talent. Anyone watch the Charlotte Nationwide race in October when Dave was driving a Braun prepared car on behalf of Nemechek’s 87 with Accudoc on board? But I digress.. Watching the 90 and 91 make a mockery of Nationwide start and park teams, are full indication of what Parsons’ plans are.
I want to end this novel by commenting on JT’s “MWR mule” commentary. If this was, in fact, the case JT, then Good for them! You don’t think Hendrick, Childress or Rousch had their “mules” over the years, or continue to have them? I’ll point them out to you. The Haas bunch, prior to becoming Stewart-Haas were Rick’s R&D cars for years. Nowadays it’s the 09 car. Childress has the 78 now, and Rousch has the 26, yes he still does. Maybe that’s why Boris couldn’t get that thing going to post a qualifying lap on Friday. Jack probably had them trying to really outrageous setup!
With all the money from TV and other sources, NASCAR should have enough money to keep 43 teams solvent enough to make all the races.
If Rousch can race 4 cars and Hendrix can run 6 cars (counting Smoke’s two,I see nothing wrong with the start and parks racing 4 cars .I say do it until the mega teams monopoly is broken(they are probably the ones crying anyway) or Nascar changes the rules.Remember how bad they screwed Carl Long,that was just wrong!!
George,
Yep, having low-budget teams run “test mules” for bigger teams is a time-honored tradition in NASCAR.
Dave Marcis used to run exotic engine/setup combinations for RCR in his latter years on the tour. Jr. Johnson and Rick Hendrick would slip Jimmy Means an R&D car to run from time to time. More recently, after merging with Roush-Fenway, it seemed that the entire Yates-connected teams were working out new setups for RFR.
The key to their missions was to “park ‘em” before NASCAR got too interested.
Take the interview with Dave Blaney on SPEED after he qualified #66 in 5th-place for the Winter California Cup race. He was asked if he was surprised by the great qualifying run. Blaney looked puzzled at first, then sort of shrugged the question off with a response like, “I guess so…..” Which probably got the attention of NASCAR.
Then in the race, even though Blaney tried to ease to the back of the pack, the car still looked as fast as any of the front runners from the big teams. And yep, he could not help but lead some laps.
Not only did the #66 have a stout engine, it had a sweet set-up, too – it was on rails. I’m wondering if one of MWR’s “regulars” had run that particular car, they just might have won the race! But Blaney was instructed to get off the stage, which he did, although it must have been with great reluctance, being as Blaney is a good racer.
No one seems to mention that the S&P teams lie to the fans each week when they make up excuses. If they broke a rear gear, they should have to verify that. If not, they should have to list “I’M A QUITTER” for their reason.
Dave Marcis never had a sponsor and he raced every race. Used tires, used parts, whatever it took. Don’t buy this “we’d race if we’d have money” because it’s been done before. The difference: S&P’s are businessmen, not racers.
TC,
I must disagree with you. The S&Ps do take spots away from legitimate teams. Can’t name a team right now but, I’ve seen a sponsored Odd Wad team go home because a S&P has their car set up to qualify and only race until the first pit stop .
I’m glad NASCAR is looking at this. They should have started doing it two years ago. Now it’s gotten way out of hand. A S&P team without a full pit crew should not even be in the line up.
I agree with the other posters that said a percentage of the purse should be awarded based on laps run. Let the S&Ps prove to NASCAR that they have a real problem rather than the vague “vibration”.
BTW, they should also be looking at the NW series about this too.
DJones- And I quote from TC’s post:
You guys actually agree on this one.
The start and park teams make the race fair and square. If all you people fell that they take money from other teams send them some money for the $2000 set of tires and $50000 motors. If you really want to help all teams ask NA$CAR why they charge teams $22,500 per COT to certify each car to race and they must be recertified and another $22500 after each wreck and they are fixed. I thank all the teams for trying to race from the biggest to the smallest since the NA$CAR owners are billioniares and the teams have to pay to even enter the race, like $3500 per cup car . NA$CAR could get teams sponsors not steal them from them.
I know Dave Blaney wants to race every week.I know PRISM wants to race everyweek too.Jeff Gordon,Jimmy Johnson to name a few play the media kiss butt game while Blaney never would so nascrap has always screwed him for being his own quiet self clean racer.That means nascrap could not make a Dale Earnhart out of him.Anybody with half a brain can lay a bumper on the leader going into the corner to win races.Not saying Dale Earnhart did not bring alot to the sport but he was what he was.Money talks and Prism has not been able to get it yet.All drivers and teams have to start somewhere un less you are good at kissing butt doing whatever they BS you to do.
I believe the S&P’ers are a bigger problem in the Nationwides series. In 2009 Morgan Shepherd made 21 races, ran a total of 3,450 laps, and won $512,603. Johnny Chapman in an MSRP S&P made 28 races, ran a total for the year of 194 laps (an average of about 7 per race), and won $495,746. I think NASCAR needs to do something not to outlaw S&P’ers, but to make it less profitable to S&P than to compete.
Good post JT. I didn’t know that about Marcis, I just knew about the wingtips, so thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully the Blaney setup is applicable to Vegas and Atlanta (intermediate tracks not unlike Fontana) and MWR can utilize the information gained. I want to see all five, errrr, all three of those teams do well.
Prism is using 1 year old MWR cars and it is their INTENTION to s&p the 55 so the 66 can race more this year than it did last year.
As for Dave..yes he has the talent, and he’s doing this to keep his name in the garage because you NEVER know what can happen.Dave’s set-back is his age…he’s 47 and his best finish is 3rd, twice.I’m a big Blaney fan and we want more than anything for Dave to be in a top ride, but there is nothing left and a driver will do what needs to be done.In NASCAR, you all know that if you’re not in the garage every week, they forget about you quickly!
: ) Dave Marcis, the greatest driver whom JoeMainstreet has never heard of, he is the MAN.
Thanks to all for the great S&P perspectives. I have been a life long race fan, but mostly my only access has been through the TV, and I will admit that until I started reading some NASCAR blogs last year, I had not even heard of S&Pers. The TV guys have never use term “start and park”, heck, when I first saw the term S&P used I thought, what the heck? Why are they talking about Standard and Poors 500? ; ) …….anyway …. all very interesting.
As usual, there is no black and white in life, there are various shades and you all paint them quite well, thanks again.
PS
I usually only read/post to this blog, it is where I first started reading online NASCAR, and the few other blogs I have virgined into are a there a lil too wild west for my tastes …. keep up the great work Journo and T.C. you men run a great place, it is very interesting.
The only thing I have to add is Dave Blaney did an interview with nascar.com before lasts week race and said they were going to start and park. He said they only had 3 people on the crew and couldn’t even pit the car. So, he was up front about his intentions about collecting a paycheck. I believe nascar is being vindictive to that team about being so honest about their intentions. nascar doesn’t care as long as you don’t tell the world about it and put nascar in a bad light.
I have to disagree with the end of your post T.C. I cant speak for these teams but I garuntee you that guys like Phil Parsons, Tommy Baldwin, and Front Row Joe are not doing it just for the money. When they say “we’d race if we had the money” they mean it. You cant go to the store and buy something that costs $10 when you only have $5. These guys are all racers and they want to go to the track every weekend and race the race. They just dont have the money to. I just find it really hard to believe that any of these teams would still start and park if they actually had money to run the full race.
-R.B.