You’re not happy when he’s winning. You’re not happy when he’s finishing 38th, 129 laps down. What do you want out of Jimmie Johnson? We should hash this out though, because he’s not going anywhere for a while.
Over on twitter and on message boards across the Internet this week people have been angrily asking why Jimmie’s car didn’t get inspected and then they were accusing him of not maintaining minimum speed during the race.
As we all saw last weekend Jimmie wrecked in the opening laps of the race and spent the next hour in the garage as his team tried to fix the car. He came out, I believe, 113 laps down.
I’ve read during the race Chad Knaus came over the radio and told Jimmie that NASCAR told him, Jimmie was under minimum speed, which was 33.27 seconds, or 162ish MPH.
Of course everyone (well maybe not everyone) is calling foul.
The problem is, NASCAR generally warns a driver before throwing the black flag. Here was his warning. I’ll be honest with you, I’m not 100% sure how exactly they decide to throw the flag, but I don’t think this was a situation that called for it.
TC and I worked some calculations and found based on the number of laps he lost between when he came back out and the end of the race, he was losing a lap every 14 laps (give or take). If he’d been the five or so seconds off the pace that would have been necessary, he would have been losing a lap every six laps. That didn’t happen.
And then there are all those screaming about Jimmie’s car not getting inspected after the race. Why would NASCAR have inspected a car that finished 38th, 129 laps down? I suppose they’re also advocating for regularly sending Joe Nemechek’s, and Tommy Baldwin’s cars to be inspected too (you know to make sure it actually was a vibration that brought them into the garage). That makes sense.
At the track the top-five cars are typically taken in for an inspection. Here is a good explanation of both the pre and post race inspection process. In addition to that, the engines of the top two finishers are taken back to the NASCAR R&D Center in Concord, NC to be inspected. The car of the winner and one randomly selected car are also brought to the R&D Center. Here is an explanation of what happens there.
So was it possible that Johnson’s car could have gotten selected? Sure. Did it? No. And let’s be honest, it wouldn’t have done anybody any good.
I’m not really sure where all the anger toward this team comes from, but I think it’s misguided. I understand you may not like Jimmie, and you may want to see him fail (that’s fine), but there is absolutely no reason to believe or suspect this team isn’t doing this honestly (at least as honestly as everyone else).
Likewise this idea that NASCAR wants Jimmie to win four straight championships couldn’t be farther from the truth. Jimmie’s dominance has not done any favors to their Chase format and continues to drive people off. If you think they want that you’re crazy.
I understand and respect the passion, but looking for trouble where there isn’t any is not a good use of time.
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on Nov 12th, 2009 at 1:31 am
Journo “Of course everyone (well maybe not everyone) is calling foul.”
Face it Journo, some people are either flat out stupid or, can’t get a word in edge wise at home and populate blogs and forums with utter nonsense just to have their voice heard.
Of course on the other hand, omnipotent NASCAR knows, just knows, that by allowing Johnson’s car back on the track and gaining an extra 15 points over what would have been a 43 place finish… and tossing in a couple handy yellows and pitroad penalties in the next two weeks to certain individuals will allow Johnson to WIN his forth Cup by a scan 15 points.
Know what I mean? /sarc tags off/
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 2:58 am
Carl Long had his car inspected, and he was not in the top 5, nuff sed.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 6:12 am
I didn’t get it either. Its like most people out there aren’t happy either way. One of my fellow Jimmie Johnson and 48 fan said: I think they were upset that Chad Knaus and his crew fixed up that car and got it back out on the track, instead of packing it up and calling it a day. Maybe that’s it, who knows. Jimmie never wanted to quit even when Knaus told him that the car was done for, he didn’t get out. And then his team went to work and they got back on the track and Chad gave him an out, Jimmie didn’t take it. He never quits and he’s not gonna give up. And that’s why he’s my driver and why he’s a 3 time champion, looking to make it 4 in a row, and has never finished lower then 5th in the points.
– The way I understand the black flag rule is: You get a warning and have like 2-5 laps (not sure on the exact number of laps but somewhere in between there) to either heed the warning and bring the car in (for whatever you are warned about) and if you don’t, THEN you get the black flag. And yes that works like that for everybody. I remember somebody else getting a warning from nascar to pick up speed or they’ll get black flagged. They picked it up, and all was fine.
I knew they weren’t going to take the 48 car back or inspect his car because it was all wrecked up. And you know since Dover in September they always have taken the 5 AND the 48. Well guess what folks. Mark Martin’s car wasn’t taken back to the R&D center because why? Well he wrecked on the last lap and his car flipped over, and thankfully landed right side up again. Johnson’s car however, went to the R&D center. But in Texas….the 48 got wrecked, and had a whole list of things replaced and put back on it. And unlike last weekend, Mark’s car went to the R&D center.
I don’t get the backlash from Talladega with Jimmie hanging out in the back until like 15 laps to go. Hate to break it to ya, but he wasn’t the only one that was back there. Ryan Newman, and Tony Stewart, Jamie McMurray and at one point Kasey Kahne. Ryan and Tony actually worked with Jimmie all day. They went with 25 laps to go. Jamie went with 30 laps to go, and it worked out well for him. Worked out well for Kasey, he finished 2nd. Ryan and Tony….not so much.
Carl Edwards did the same thing as Johnson did in the spring talladega race earlier this year. Dale Jarrett has done it, and went on to win it. Which is where Jimmie and Chad got the idea to do that. They do that with pretty much every restrictor plate race since like last year. But noone made a big stink about it until this year. But then again, this year, that’s all that ESPN focused on, reminding us every 3-5 minutes that Johnson was back there. Just like at Texas all they could talk about was the 48’s wreck and reminding us every 5 minutes. Its like: yeah, we know, but um….there is a race on. And I honestly think that’s why people don’t like Johnson because its like ESPN only talks about Johnson, and they do. And even though I’m a fan of his, and he’s my main driver. However, I have other drivers, and I would like to know what’s going on with the rest of the race, thank you. I know Jimmie going for a 4th straight title is a big story, but hey, its not the ONLY story, and ESPN makes it that way, EVERY single week. Um, how about you move away from the script and actually call the race that’s right outside your window?
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 7:22 am
Garry: It might be “nuff sed” if we were actually talking about the same thing. With Jimmie we are talking about post-race inspection, while Carl Long’s engine issue was discovered after it was blown up during a practice session, before the race. Besides, it is a common NASCAR practice to take expired engines back to the R&D center for inspection.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I look for the feds to get involved very soon. Requiring Chad Knaus to “spread the wealth” and make public his how to handbook for the making of a dedicated and successful race team.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 10:19 am
People need to ask why their dirvers/teams can’t beat JJ and Team 48 instead of complaining about Jimmie winning. He’s the best – that’s why he wins.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Why take this seriously?
The other 42+ drivers collectively have more fans than Johnson has (true for all drivers, even JR, he has more fans than any other driver but only a plurality, not an absolute majority).
If there are (I’m guessing) 10 million NASCAR fans, even if as many as 15% of them are Johnson fans, there are 8.5 million fans rooting against Johnson. And out of that 8.5 million, even though they’re not rooting for him, most are going to respect what Johnson is doing. And there is going to be a smaller group of non-Johnson fans who feed off the dark side, thinking that only a conspiracy can explain why their favorite driver isn’t winning (any time you deal with large numbers of people, you’re getting to end up with some number of people outside the standard deviation).
And that’s who you’re hearing from, the nuts, the people who blame others for their own failures in life, who can’t accept that sometimes other people are just plain better. They can’t accept they’re rooting for a guy who just isn’t cutting it this year so they go looking for the evidence that would show that, in this case, Johnson is cheating.
And it would be a huge mistake if NASCAR did anything to address these nuts other than continue to release information that demonstrates that there is no basis for their paranoid fantasies. They’re not representative of NASCAR fans… and besides, there’s nothing NASCAR can do to convince a conspiracy nut there isn’t a conspiracy.
End of rant… and while I like Johnson, I’m rooting for Gordon.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 11:53 am
I’m bored of Johnson, but please- cool it with the conspiracy theories. This is why I got sick of basketball. Used to watch every game my team(s) played, now I might watch some playoff games, if anything.
The fans- and then the coaches and players- got into the whole conspiracy thing to the point where it was sickening to watch and be a fan. Every call against your team was a grand conspiracy. Every set of refs had it out for your team. No one ever questioned WHY their team was down by 2 with a few seconds to go (because of the shots they actually missed, not because of bad calls!)
Johnson is good. Plain and simple.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Everyone watches the race at my house. Most of my spouse’s friends are men who at one time were involved in the sport of racing. My spouse raced drag bikes at the pro level. These are knowledgable men. So what did they all say when Jeff Gordon couldn’t capitalize on JJ’s wreck??
“He threw the race because he’s part owner of the 48 team.”
I’m not kidding. When I said, “Doesn’t he want a fifth championship???”…..they started throwing food at me. Ha! They are just mad because Dale Jr. is having an awful year and all the old timers aren’t racing anymore.
The 48 team has been very consistant and until last week, has had exceptional luck. My life experience has taught me that when anybody’s THAT lucky, you’d better start looking over your shoulder. It’s not over till the math says it is.
There’s no conspiracy here. Now, let’s go find the devil that CK and JJ sold their souls to…..
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Jimmie,Chad and the team just need to keep on pushing.People will say all kinds of things about winners.Just the way it goes.Hope Jimmie gets the cup this year and goes for 5 next season.GO 48!
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Brian France talks quite a bit about JJ’s dynasty (and much more) in today’s Charlotte Observer:
http://www.thatsracin.com/140/story/22235.html
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
i am not a jimmie johnson fan in the traditional sense of that word but i have a great deal of respect for what the 48 team has accomplished to date. i don’t understand when or why it became acceptable to look down on a team because it is successful and outperforms others. the entire purpose of any sport is to compete against one’s peers and be better than they are on a consistent basis. right now, the 48 team is better than the majority of the teams racing and has had some luck: that’s a tough combination to beat.
in addition, i’m astounded that any nascar fan would seriously consider that a driver would deliberately wreck his car in order to hand a teammate an advantage! spin to bring out a yellow: hell, yeah: my driver’s done that! toss something out the window to bring a debris caution to the track? yeppers: we’ve seen that as well. but deliberately wreck a car, destroy the work done by the team at the shop and in the pits, put his own physical safety at risk, all to benefit a teammate who already has a commanding lead in the standings? uhhh, not so much. forget about the competitive personality that simply doesn’t look at that as an ethical behavior; just look at the ramifications to his OWN team and safety. to reach for that explanation is, in my opinion, ludricrous and pathetic.
folks may dislike the driver or the crew chief or even the relentless and absurd tv coverage but what the 48 team is on the verge of doing is amazing and should be recognized and celebrated and be seen as something to which every team should aspire — and they should start looking at ways to beat those guys next year!
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
You mean you guys did not get the feed from the REAL drivers meeting at Talladega?
Helton: OK, Vickers you are going to botch the start and fall way back. Jamie, you are going to win…
Jamie: Thank you sir.
Helton: You’re welcome.
Now, as we are coming down the back stretch after the restart for the GWC, the #82 needs to let the #48 in front of them. Then as we are coming off of 4 to take the white flag….Vickers, you are going to tap Brad…sorry but Brad has already taken too much heat lately for rough driving.
Brad you are going to run into the back of Kurt and push him towards the wall. Kurt, it is important you don’t hit the wall though….for this all to work you HAVE to spin down in front of the field. But do NOT hit Jimmy. You got that?
As that is happening, everybody in the inside lane behind the 48 needs to check up. Scott, especially you. Then Kurt will hit you.
OK, Labonte, as that is happening, you are going to spin #1 to the wall.
Truex, you are going come off the wall…NOW NOBODY HIT HIM!! He has to come across clean so he can hit Mark in the right rear.
Jeff, you should have enough time to slow down and miss this, but you need to stay on the apron…I don’t care who it is, but hit somebody.
Basically, everybody else…just hit something and make it look good this time. Since there won’t be any fans in turn 4 grandstands, we should not hurt anybody.
For next week, we need some ideas on how to wreck Jimmy. But remember, we are going to blame it on one of the open wheel guys. We need to develop some more drama around how hard this is going to be for Danica.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Hey Journo,
You say there is absolutely no reason to believe or suspect this team isn’t doing things honestly. OK I trust you would know better than the typical fan since you’re involved week in and week out. Problem is some may not forget when Chad Knaus was suspended and thrown out of Daytona a few years back. Why was that? For cheating or just not doing things honestly? Is there a difference? Should folks just overlook that incident? But you know, things must be on the up and up with the 48 team because if it weren’t I think we’d be hearing some things out of “The Cat in the Hat”. Remember the Gordon/Evernham deal with tires that Jack questioned?
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
The problem I have isn’t so much with Jimmy as it is the blatant favoritism NA$CAR shows the Hendricks organization. Seriously, Carl Long, an under-funded back-marker struggling to make it has an engine that is 1) OK is a couple hundred thousandths out of spec and 2) still didn’t make near the power the big teams make. So what does NA$CAR do? They throw the book at him to “make an example” of him. No warning. Where was Carl’s “Look Carl, your blown engine was .0002 out of tolerance, better make sure it doesn’t happen again, we’re going to be checking your engine every race for the rest of the year.”
Oh, that’s right, Carl didn’t drive for Hendricks! Therefore, he doesn’t get any warning that he’s close to or barely over the tolerance!
Plus, Hendricks is the ONLY team I ever remember seeing go in and appeal a penalty and get it overturned. THAT is what disgusts me about Jeff and Jimmy, and sadly Mark and Jr – both of which I used to enjoy rooting for when they were not racing for the “Evil Empire” (although Jack Roush has his own evil empire, but NA$CAR doesn’t seem to like Jack for some reason).
Personally, while I think Jeff and Jimmy are good drivers, if you were to go back in time and take Jeff and Jimmy out of the Hendricks organization and replace them with, say, Jeff Burton and Matt Kenseth, I think you’d see Burton and Kenseth with 7 championships, and Gordon/Johnson splitting 2 between them.
Yeah, I think the Hendricks organization and their power in the sport makes that big of a difference.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
This is not hearsay….I heard this on JJ’s incar radio….Chad told JJ that Nascar said he was going to have to run faster or be black flagged. He ran faster for a few laps then slowed back down again. According to Trackpass he was running under the required speed to stay on track. When things happen like this people are naturally going to think conspiracy. I think he has it won either way, but it doesn’t say much for Nascar to let it slide for one driver and not for all. That is why very few fans believe anything the suits say. They lost their veracity and integrity a long time ago.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I’ve been a NASCAR fan for over 40 years and I still love the sport, warts and all. Is it as good as what it used to be, No – but neither is baseball, football, basketball, or donuts. Maybe my perception of how good the good ole days were might be off just a tad.
When they were at their peak and beating my favorites I believe I called DW and Rusty everything but Mr. However, I find a mean-spiritedness among the media, in particular, and a segment of the fans that I do not recall years ago – some of which I am convinced is a result of a change in the media 10 or 15 years ago.
I sure would like to see some of these fans, or reporters, who are always accusing Knaus of cheating go accuse Julius Peppers of cheating when he’s penalized for a bit of holding.
I’m not a JJ fan and I’ll probably always have a problem putting him in with the all-time greats, but he’s really good, no question, and I suspect he could have held his own in just about any era.
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
All- As TC pointed out earlier this situation and the Carl Long situation have absolutely no similarities. Carl blew an engine in practice and NASCAR has a policy of taking blown up engines. Jimmie didn’t blow up an engine and this was a post race inspection. Again absolutely no similarities. Remember this timing and scoring information is something everyone has access to. If there really was a problem other teams would be screaming.
Ginger- It’s absolutely hearsay because I have nothing hard to back it up. The fact is the numbers don’t back up Jimmie running under the pace. Figure it out if you don’t believe me. I would also challenge you to explain NASCAR’s process for black flagging a car that is under minimum speed, because I don’t really know what criteria a driver has to meet. Obviously if a driver is running in traffic and trying to move out of the way you can’t expect that driver to be making minimum speed if they are running out of the groove. Another question I have is if NASCAR was going to let him get away with this “rule breaking” why warn him the first time? Seems pointless, no?
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
RE: Lucky dog #13: Knob. You’re reporting of the choreographed Dega segment is well taken. However, you left out two very important key ingredients.
Firstly, under cloak at NASCAR’s R&D ctr there are actually duplicates of each wrecked car from Dega as a result of the double secret rehersal race staged on Tuesday night before the restrictor 500. You heard me correctly….at night. Just as Dega has no lights, it was the perfect R&D rehersal.
Secondly, Mike Helton merley “suggested” that at the next race in Texas Kurt Busch would be returned the favor for his Dega spinning efforts with a win after his baby brother runs the tank empty en route to the checker while trying for the 3-peat. See, if someone actually wins the 3-peat then it will diminish it’s importance in the future. Keep the dream alive….
on Nov 12th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
@ knobcreekfan,
Take a bow. Loved your comment.
on Nov 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Journo, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You just called me a liar, which is untrue. I did hear the in-car audio exactly like I said. Go find the tape somewhere and listen for yourself. I keep Trackpass on the whole race to watch the speeds, etc. I can’t confirm the speeds they show are 100% right, but I do know what I saw. I don’t remember the speed the booth said had to be maintained, but they gave the seconds and the mph.
I don’t know the criteria Nascar uses, but since I have seen and heard drivers being called to the garage to park, they obviously have one.
As for the warning, it is standard. I’ve heard it many times over the years. They tell them they must run faster or they will be black flagged. You obviously don’t listen to much in-car audio or you would know these things.
I’ve been involved in racing for 56 years and was a grown woman when I started. The next time you call someone a liar, find a greenhorn who doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Don’t take on an old timer who has been to and seen this rodeo many, many times.
on Nov 13th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Ginger- I think we have a misunderstanding. I said this was hearsay and it is. Here is the definition of hearsay:
No where in my response to you did I call you a liar. I just personally can’t verify this information. I’m hearing it from readers and people on message boards. By definition that’s hearsay.
I’m not saying you didn’t see it, in fact I fully believe you saw and heard what you saw, but I don’t know under what circumstances you were seeing what you saw. Was Jimmie running in traffic, was he in the groove, was he moving out of the way of traffic? These are all things I would like to see first hand.
I apologize it came off the way it apparently did. My point was to say, despite what the coverage was saying the simple math doesn’t back up Jimmie running under speed the entire way. Again I apologize, this was not at all my intention.
on Nov 13th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Journo, I accept your apology. I don’t think whether Jimmie was running in traffic or moving out of the way of traffic has anything to do with the required lap time; however, I don’t know that for a fact. Anyway, it isn’t worth arguing about. My point was really about the believability of Nascar, and my concern isn’t going to change their behavior one way or the other.
Thank you for your reponse. I hope you have a fun and productive weekend.