Now I may not have been clear with what I was trying to say…and since I am the current record holder for longest post on TNI and I was trying to not break that record, I was trying to be brief. As you can tell that is hard for me to do.

But, I did say that I knew this was not a normal criminal case and accordingly those rules do not apply. But the intent of those rules is to assume someone is innocent until proven otherwise. So, going back to pretending TC tests positive, I imagine the two of you would want all of us here to assume he was innocent. So let’s treat Jeremy the same way. I am not speculating on any facts of the case and what they may/may not mean. If a hair follicle test exists or not. I have not judged anyone. I have put no weight in injunctions. Etc. Just the good ol’ golden rule.

I know you think I am taking your words out of context, but you would like us to “not assume this was a false-positive anymore then one would assume Mayfield is a meth head.” There are some double negatives here, but to not assume it is false, is to assume it is legitimate positive. You cannot argue that any other way. If we are assuming it is legitimate positive, then we have speculated/judged. Granted, I guess one could argue at what level of meth use one becomes a “meth head” and he could just be a user. But we would have at least assumed he has used meth.

“As far as NASCAR being a “my way or the highway” business I wouldn’t want it any other way. We have predictability and stability that few other sanctioning bodies can offer.”

I do not want to debate what sport has the best sanctioning body because they all have issues…good & bad. But NFL, NBA, MLB all do pretty well and are not law enforcement, prosecutor, judge, jury, court of appeals and executioner all wrapped in one.

I am guessing you have never been on the “wrong side” of NASCAR politics. I have been on a couple of occasions and it is not fun. In one meeting with some NASCAR executives, my employer said something to a NASCAR senior executive that the NASCAR exec did not like. Said NASCAR executive told my employer that he would “ruin him and make sure he never worked in NASCAR again.” A short time later the company was out of business and 65 people lost their jobs.

I understand there is a need for the sanctioning body to be strong & firm, but I also think a little more cooperation would be good. Some folks would say China & Iran are predictable & stable. And that Iraq was more stable under Hussein than now. And as we saw Bernie E thinks Hitler was a good leader because he “got things done.” None of those regimes are/were good, but they are/were predictable and stable.

Coming from you, that has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read. Forgetting some of your wonderful insight on other topics and just sticking with Mayfield; on this site and yours you have proclaimed some wonderful gems including 1) Jeremy is personally responsible for any liability for the TRT lawsuit, 2) he is flat busted broke, 3) a false positive is impossible, 4) Jeremy is a liar, 5) his attorneys are shysters, 6) Judge Mullen assumed when making his ruling that it would be appealed & 7) Diehl is full of sh*t.

As you have said, not all of the evidence has been presented in this case. So, how on Venus can you make such judgements?

It never ceases to amaze me how people can judge things without all of the available facts on hand. That’s not to say everything is on the table in this case, it’s not, but as you point out via your link they are for this appeal to reinstate Mayfield’s suspension.

One of the key points to me is the section that reads the, “court improperly decided without the benefit of any evidence in the record that a reliable and accurate same-day test for methamphetamine exists which can ensure Mayfield’s drug-free participation in upcoming NASCAR events.”

Until, and if, the three tests Mayfield were given are proven to be flawed in some way the default should have been on the side of safety for fans, crew members and drivers with the lifting of the suspension.

Whether the appeal of this decision wins and the suspension is reinstated we’ll have to wait and see, that I suspect will occur sometime in the next two or three days.

Mayfield’s attorneys are obligated to prove this was a false positive. Because they filed the suit, the burden lies with them http://www.cochranfirm.com/resources/PersonalInjury/burdenofproof.htm. Feel free to look up burden of proof. As of now they have not done that because this case is in the very early stages. I am assuming they will attempt to do this as the lawsuit moves forward. Remember two things (1) this is a civil case not a criminal case (Mayfield will not be found guilty or innocent) and (2) the burden lies with Mayfield not with NASCAR. Taking what I just said into account and using your logic, NASCAR is actually the one you should consider innocent until proven guilty. It’s a little one sided, but if your interested in some in-depth legal reading about the case, check out NASCAR’s appeal filing with the court: http://media.charlotteobserver.com/static/images/pdf/Mayfielddoc33.pdf.

It is easy to assume based on your observations of someone that they would not do something like this, but as TC wrote a couple of weeks ago perception is not always reality. I assume you are not a close confidant of Jeremy Mayfield. I don’t personally know what the correct answer is on this matter. I can tell you, I hope for Jeremy’s health and well being this somehow was a false positive.

As far as NASCAR being a “my way or the highway” business I wouldn’t want it any other way. I know many in the business who would agree with that. We have predictability and stability that few other sanctioning bodies can offer. You’re of course welcome to disagree if you like.

With the above said, I’ve had my fill of Mayfield for one week. I’m out on this discussion. As Linda Richman would say “Talk amongst yourselves.”

You made an assumption that isn’t possible given the length of the hearing. You may feel the judge heard all the pertinate evidence, have at it, but you’re far off the mark.

“Further, I fully understand that this procedure was just one step in what will likely be a very lengthy process.”

Not hardly this “step” is merely a sideshow, the real cases are two lawsuits filed by Mayfield and NASCAR.

And BTW, my home planet is Venus.

P.S. Puzzle me this: In this latest hearing why did judge Mullen discount Mayfield’s own expert who claimed the amount of meth found in all three tests indicated he was a “chronic user?”

WHAT?! Maybe I am missing something, but your comment (in the form of a question of course) was “While on the subject of assumptions, why do you assume the judge saw and ruled on all available evidence?” You are explicitly asking me why I assumed something I that did not write or assume. Therefore, you have gone away from what I actually wrote.

What planet are you from? (please note that was in the form of a question)

Also, since I did not assume he saw and ruled on all available evidence, it is irrelevant that you “clearly explained why it wasn’t possible for judge Mullen to hear all the available evidence in a short hearing that was not intended to be the be all and end all of the entire case.” (please note the use of quotation marks)

Further, I fully understand that this procedure was just one step in what will likely be a very lengthy process. I am guessing we will have crowned the 2010 and maybe the 2011 Cup champions before this is through the various rulings and appeals.

Psst, you’re about 6 years behind the NASCAR news cycle, the carbon monoxide problem has been looked and addressed.

1/23/2003 – NASCAR takes action on carbon monoxide fumes.

Example two 2005

vettesnfrets, you were saying what?

I did, did you see any quote marks around what I wrote? Not to mention it was in the form of a question AND clearly explained why it wasn’t possible for judge Mullen to hear all the available evidence in a short hearing that was not intended to be the be all and end all of the entire case.

I am sure we will have to agree to disagree on this. And let me say I am not a very litigious person. But, assuming they have been TRULY wronged, they stand to suffer significant harm and they cannot resolve the issue via other means, I am fine with people suing NASCAR. Historically NASCAR has taken a “my way or the highway” approach to governing the sport. If you diagree with them your option is to leave the business, change your career, shutter your business, etc. Maybe, just maybe, the threat of lawsuits (and losing lawsuits) from some of their “partners” (teams, crews, drivers, tracks) that all combined make the sport possible will persuade NASCAR to cooperate with them all more.

“I think Jeremy has every right to sue and deserves his day in court, but I think until it is proven this was a false positive he should be tested multiple times during the week and there should be no concern that he is on something.”

I agree with you here, test the heck out of him. As a side note, from what I have seen/heard, Jeremy has offered up to test whenever/wherever NASCAR wants. So that should not be a problem.

“Again please do not assume this was a false-positive anymore then one would assume Mayfield is a meth head. By assuming one or the other you are doing exactly what you accuse NASCAR of doing, and that is railroading.”

With all due respect, I am going to presume it is a false positive. I am simply sticking with a main principal of the American juducial system…presumed innocence.

By default, to (as you say) “not assume this was a false-positive” you are presuming it was a legitimate positive test. If you presume it is a legitimate postive test, then you are presuming his guilt.

I understand this case is different than a typical criminal case where normal presumed innocence and burden of proof rules apply, but the man has proclaimed his innocence. Therefore, let’s treat the man as we would want to be treated and as our Constitution directs us.