No matter how hard it tries to shake the stigma, it seems that some people still look at NASCAR and its fans as Confederate Flag waving, racist rednecks from the South. This most recent incident involving Brendan Gaughan’s crew chief Bryan Berry and African American driver Marc Davis has brought all of this back to the surface.
Unlike many others who have chosen to write about Berry and what happened, I’m going to reserve judgement. Everyone (including NASCAR) is going off hearsay at this point, and while I understand NASCAR needed to punish Berry, I don’t know if some of the things being said about Berry are fair. I wasn’t there, I don’t know what was said, so I’m not going to condemn Berry’s actions or justify them.
Let me just make that clear one more time. If Berry did say what those witnesses are claiming he did, I’m not saying it’s okay, because it isn’t. But at the same time, if he is innocent, then there is no reason to condemn him for being angry about the incident with Marc Davis.
I think it’s interesting though that some people are calling Berry a racist and connecting him to NASCAR’s southern roots, yet Berry isn’t even from the South! He’s actually a native of South Florida, one of the most diverse areas of this country. That certainly doesn’t acquit him of what happened, but his alleged actions have absolutely nothing to do with the South. And along with that, some of the comments made on the radio by Gaughan have people questioning his views as well. Let’s not forget that Gaughan played basketball at Georgetown under John Thompson and was college roommates with Allen Iverson. If Gaughan is racist, don’t you think he would have had a problem playing for an African American coach and living with an African American roommate?
Anyways, I digress.
The Berry incident aside, I believe it is ridiculously unfair to label the entire sport of NASCAR, the people in the garage, and the fans as racist. While I understand NASCAR is struggling with diversity, there is a ton of progress being made on both sides of the fence.. For example, there are more women and minorities working in the sport then ever before.
For the sake of this discussion, I’m going to do something I don’t normally do here, but I’m going to reveal a little tidbit about myself; I’m a white male. That said, I have absolutely no idea what it’s like being a minority walking the garage or sitting in the grandstands. All I have to go off of is what I’ve seen. And what I’ve seen in NASCAR isn’t different then any other industry I’ve ever worked in.
Racism is an unfortunate reality in this country. It happens everywhere, everyday. And NASCAR isn’t immune to that. But to say in this day and age that NASCAR is somehow this leftover bastion of deep rooted Southern views is ludicrous. While I have no stats to actually back this up, it seems like there are more people who work in NASCAR that aren’t from the South, then there are people who are from southern states.
Recently I had a reader make a comment to me (and I’m paraphrasing) about how they didn’t know if they felt comfortable attending a race in the South because of this perceived racism. My first reaction is to vehemently defend the sport and tell them that I will pay them $1,000 if someone treats them badly while attending a race. I’ve never had a bad experience at a race as a fan, and except for the occasional Confederate flag, I’ve yet to see a prejudiced act committed by one fan against another; but again, I’m white.
But my next feeling is one of sadness. It bothers me that in a time where we have an African American man running this country that somebody would feel hesitant about attending a major sporting event for fear of not being accepted. There is no reason why someone who considers themself a race fan shouldn’t feel 1,000,000% welcome at any race track from Washington to South Carolina.
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on Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:16 am
Wow – the idea that someone would not feel accepted at a Nascar event is sad. I attended the All Star race at Lowe’s in 2008 and saw (1) a diverse crowd and (2) no evidence of racism. Then again I’m a white female so maybe I was not as sensitive to what might have been around me. I live in CA and had never been to NC before and was floored by how friendly everyone was on and off the track.
I hope people don’t stay away from races because they fear racism. After all, all you really need to do is wear your driver’s colors and you will immediately have friends all over the track, and it won’t matter what race or sex you are! : )
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Dear T.C.
Excuse me, but what exactly are your credentials to peck at keyboard letters and waste expensive internet ink?
OK 1st you state “…Berry isn’t even from the South! He’s actually a native of South Florida, one of the most diverse areas of this country…”
Ya know that Florida was actually a Confederate State and included as 1 of the 13 stars on the same flag NASCAR excoriates it’s most loyal fan base for using as a benign symbol of it’s traditional historic roots being created in the back roads of the hills of Georgia.
Then you use this gem “Let’s not forget that Gaughan played basketball at Georgetown under John Thompson and was college roommates with Allen Iverson.”
You are aware that just prior to Iverson’s rather shady professional sports career that includes drugs and guns and abuse of women, that Iverson was videotaped at Circle Lanes Bowling Alley in Hampton Virginia – hitting a white woman with a chair. He was actually convicted of inciting a riot at a mainly white establishment and sentenced to 5 years in jail in Newport News. Yes your hero Iverson hates whitey, and his actions have always shown him to be a violent thug.
Now we have the racist NAACP demanding the Sons of Confederate Veterans be banned from displaying the flag of thier ancestors in a Veterans Day parade in Homestead Fla or theyt will boycott NASCAR.
It is long LONG past time for sensible folks to take a stand and say enough is ENOUGH and stop trying to bend over and take it up the rear to appease those who are so easily offended at the drop of a hat. Including you
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 6:33 am
Billy: Wow, that was quite a response. I didn’t believe I needed any sort of credentials to “peck at keyboard letters and waste expensive internet ink.” It certainly appears that you don’t need any credentials to do it.
It has been pointed out to me that Florida is indeed a southern state, which I realize as I can read a map. But to me personally, when I think of the “South,” Miami, FL just doesn’t come to mind.
And before you start referring to Allen Iverson as my “hero,” do yourself a favor and read back over what I actually wrote. I simply used the fact Gaughan roomed with him in college to prove a point about Brendan. So don’t start putting words into my mouth and lecturing me on Allen Iverson’s background, as it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
Also, I’m not using this blog or this post to push any sort of agenda on anyone. If anything, I was attempting to stand up for those folks who live in the South (including those in Georgia!) that aren’t racist, as I think it’s a terrible stereotype. Let me just repeat that so you are clear. I was trying to stand up for Southerners!!! Some of the best and friendliest people I’ve ever had the pleasure to know reside right here in the South.
So before you start condemning me for being easily offended, maybe you should scroll back up and read what I actually said. And in the future before you decide to comment on my blog, do everyone a favor and check your preconceived notions about who I am and what we do here at the door.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:06 am
I think NASCAR still has a long way to go when it comes to diversity. Not just in terms of race but religion, nationality, opinion, etc… A lot of the views that were expressed after the Berry incident and what often seems to be a great deal of opposition towards diversity and the diversity program is pretty troubling to me. I’m Jewish and at times I’ve felt that I can’t be open about that because some of my fellow fans don’t have a good attitude about religious beliefs that are different than their own. There may be a lot of non-Southerners in NASCAR but I’m from the Northeast with liberal views and I’ve been openly told by some of my fellow fans that it’s people like me who are helping to ruin NASCAR and take the sport away from it’s traditional roots. So I don’t always feel comfortable as a fan of this sport and I’ve heard numerous stories from other fans who are viewed as being different from the traditional fan whether it’s because of their race, religion or beliefs who also feel uncomfortable at times. Maybe your column reflects why NASCAR has issues when it comes to diversity – people inside the sport don’t think there’s any problem.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:20 am
I strongly believe that NASCAR is a REGIONAL sport. And the “bootlegger” tag (Jr. Johnson) still seems to float around amongst those “outside” of the region. My concern is not with those who follow the sport or who attend the sport or who participate in the sport or who write about the sport, I am concerned about the racial culture of NASCAR. Please remember that NASCAR is the governing organization, not the participants. However, it is the participants (and fans) that suffer when the governing organization is found liable for any racial or sexual discrimination. It is important that the governing body be the model for racial and gender harmony amongst its fans and participants. And I believe that leadership is lacking.
T
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:27 am
hey tc! can i just say that i’m frustrated FOR you and journo? sometimes, i despair at the clear lack of ability of some to read and compehend content before making comments. all i ask is that you two don’t hang it up b/c the we’d lose one of the few interesting sites out there and we’d have to go all “daly planet” on you two and bombard you until you come back!
on topic: anyone who believes that racism exists only in the south is, at best, naive and, at worse, delusional. where someone comes from in life is neither a protection against nor an inclination toward racism. i neither give berry a pass nor condemn him based on where he was raised — in fact, until you wrote about it, i had no reason to know that information. words and actions are what identify a racist, not geography.
my home track is dover and finances don’t permit travel to tracks in “the deep south” so i have no personal experience to answer the anxiety expressed by your reader. i do know that i have spent (way too much) time at dover and i have never witnessed any behavior that would even remotely fit into that description. stupid, embarassing, drunken, idiotic behavior? hell to the yes! but racism or prejudice? nope.
one of the things i appreciate about nascar is my impression that our passion for our sport unites us across gender and age and — i hope! — ethnicity. where we diverge and where strong negative opinions are expressed are when we defend our driver/team to another fan! and that’s as it should be in my world.
as for berry’s comments: my disagreement with your thoughts here comes from the use of the word “hearsay.” from what i have read (and take that for what it’s worth), his words were heard be several men who were around davis’s car at that time and some of those men were the ones who reported it to nascar. that moves it from hearsay to statement. this wasn’t a case of me saying “i heard from someone who was there that he said . . .” that would be hearsay. this was a case of someone who was there saying “i heard him say . . . ” that’s not hearsay, that’s (if you will) direct testimony. there is a significant difference.
(of course, i can only know what’s been reported out and that, as maybe you were implying, IS hearsay!)
anyway, know that NI is one of the two sites that i hit every single day and i appreciate the work you and journo do, both at and away from the track! i wonder if, when it’s time for you to retire, you’ll pass along the “tc” tag to some other tire changer, much like “the dread pirate roberts” from the princess bride!
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Deborah: Let me just make one thing clear if it isn’t clear in the post. I never said I don’t think there is a problem. This country as a whole still has a major problem with racism. My point was more that I don’t think NASCAR is any different then other industries. It’s not better, but it’s not worse either.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Deborah, There is no more segregated industry in the USA than the film/tv industry, along racial,ethnic & religious lines. Pls explain to the good folks who follow NASCAR what goyim means.
Or for that matter, ask Bobby Allison what is was like to be the only Catholic in NASCAR at a time many in N Carolina called him a papist.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Deborah, if you feel uncomfortable with letting your friends and fellow fans know you are Jewish, you have more of an issue with the friends you have than NASCAR. I am in this industry on the merchandising side, and when I go into buisness meetings,attend NASCAR licensing summits,and attend races we do not introduce ourselves by our religion. The company I work for and most of the team reps I deal with are of many different faiths, and the majority of them are of your own.
As for the comments about South Florida… there is a minority of people ( in South Florida) who take the “Southern Pride” too far. For the most part there are so many cultures in South Florida – Miami, Monroe, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties. We are all a minority at this point.
As for the Berry comment: I think it would have been more of a lesson to fine him and make him take a diversity class, issue a public apology, and/or suspend him. By firing him this issue is now up for speculation and rumors.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:27 am
All I can say is that I’ve lived in the North, South, West and their are racist people everywhere (guess you’ve never seen the play Avenue Q). Thats just a fact of life, something that will never change. The funny thing is that there are other racial groups in this world and they stereotype just as much as anyone.
Now saying that, I am orginally from the South and I kind of take offense to you making it seem as if the only racist people are from the South, because I can tell you – thats not the case and I think people from the North should be educated on why people from the South are the most caring and giving people in the country. Finally, I do agree that Miami is one of the most diverse areas in our country (maybe NY City is #1).
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I’m new to your site and, like Red, am now making you a regular stp on my daily surfing trip. It’s good to see some sober discussion of NASCAR instead of the usual “Busch (or whoever) sucks” chorus so prevalent now. Keep up the good work!
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:34 am
ATS: Who are you responding to?
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:37 am
It appears to me that NASCAR could have handled this matter with a little more care.
NASCAR should be monitoring post-race comments after incidents like this one. Gaughan was literally “spitting nails” with anger in a TV interview. It didn’t take Dr. Phil to figure out that a nasty confrontation was about to happen. Had they immediately invited Marc Davis, Gaughan, their crew chiefs and spotters to the NASCAR hauler to vent in private, they could have prevented this unfortunate incident.
Just like I think that Kyle Busch should have been called to the NASCAR trailer for his incidents at Martinsville (leaving his car on the track immediately after the race and storming off) and Nashville (the infamous guitar trophy smasheroo).
But if they think they have an image problem now, just wait until Hurricane Danica hits the NASCAR garage! With her hot temper I can see a “bad moon risin’ over the NASCAR spin meisters.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I agree with red on the point that racism is not limited to the South, but it seems that we get stuck with the label.
I was born, raised and live in the south(GA…please forgive us for Carter). I was raised to treat everyone the same and decide if you like a person or not based only on their actions fore we are all individuals.
I do however take issue with anyone that associates the Confederate flag as a racist symbol. I proudly display it over my coach while attending races. I see it as a symbol of my southern heritage. The fact that extremist groups use the flag greatly offends me as this is not what it represents. I wish they would come up with their own flag however I can’t control that.
I have had African Americans camping close to my site and we visit each others camp to talk racing and enjoy a cold beverage or two. An offer was made by an “individual” during one of these visits to assist me in locating a good camping site at Lowes if I ever decided to attend a race there. My point here is that thankfully this person didn’t prejudge me nor I him based on anything more than our individual actions. So now I’m curious T.C., would you prejudge me based on a confederate flag flying over my coach?
Whatever your response I enjoy the site. Ya’ll have done a great job with it.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Rick: I try very hard not to prejudge anyone. And I don’t necessarily associate the Confederate Flag with racism, but there is no denying it has become a symbol for some who are prejudiced. A few bad apples have ruined the flag for everyone who flies it without those feelings. I wasn’t trying to imply that everyone who has the flag is racist, but like it or not, it has become a symbol for racism.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
T.C., While unfortunately I can’t argue the fact that the Confederate Flag is misused and abused it is up to me and hopefully others that feel as I do to speak up when it is unjustly linked to racism. I feel that is the only way the stigma will ever be removed.
Also, It is also unfortunate that anyone would have the impression that attending a track in the South would be anything other than a great experience, that is if they can stand the heat and humidity during the summer.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
T.C., I’m a resident up North and have been attending local short tracks for the past 10 years. When I first started attending I was the only African-American, and a female to boot, in the stands. At my favorite track my seats are reserved seating, and the man with the White Supremacist tattoos all over his body sits two rows below us. I’ve NEVER had an issue there, or at any of the tracks I’ve attended. I encounter more direct and veiled racism at my job with the white collar college-educated than with the folks at the race track. Today, there are more folks of color in the stands, and the track has become a place where everyone can go on a Friday night to have a great time. We leave the day to day garbage of our lives at the front gate and just enjoy the racing!
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Billy – Thank you for the clearly objective opinion on the matter. Also, I think we can all agree that Mr Iverson is a “violent thug.” However, I think you have jumped to conclusions by stating he “hates whitey.” This implies that Mr Iverson discriminates when choosing his victims. Some of his most infamous incidents have been against his african-american wife & cousins.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I think it is much uproar over nothing and the usual knee-jerk reaction from NA$CAR. So are they going to suspend or fine you if you get in a heated discussion and use the words that are used when mad or proving a point? And that someone of another race can use a “slur” to someone else of the same race but that if someone of another race does then they are labeled a racist. And the suspension Berry got is as outlandish as Carl long’s death sentence. Oh well, boys will be boys and lots of things are said in the heat of battle. By the way, anyone listen to “rap” or “hip-hop”lately to prove my point that it is o.k. to use slurs to some but not others?
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
OK I’m here to speak (self appointed I might add) on behalf of Georgia, white, male, middle-aged racer and motorsport fans (all forms…not just NASCAR). Bottom line is….why can’t we just race the most talented group of drivers and crew regardless of race, sex, financial status or national origin??? I want to see the best of the best compete head to head w/o barriers (both seen and unseen) but even more important w/o forced diversity. IMHO to single out a minority for a fabricated opportunity simply because he or she is a minority is doing injustice not only to the fans, but more importantly to the individual. Rather, single out “anyone” for opportunity because they posses pure realized or potential talent to be the best at their given trade.
One of my favorite quotes references former Indianapolis Colts and Super Bowl winning Coach Tony Dungy who just happens to be an American of African American descent. Focus here on the word “all”.
“You limit a great man by bringing race into his accomplishments.
Integrity has no color. Character has no color.
Tony is a leader among all men.”
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
TC, first, I share your sadness at the incident. No one wins.
However, let me point out that Rusty Wallace, you and others don’t seem to understand the concept of hearsay evidence. In fact, the reports of Barry’s comments came directly from people who claimed to hear Barry utter the remarks first-hand. If it were hearsay, the claimants would be saying something to the effect of “I heard from Party A that Barry said the following…” Big difference.
Second, I too thought that NASCAR fans did not deserve the “Red Neck” moniker as I’ve been a fan for 35 years and none my NASCAR friends would recoil at racial slurs.
Then I read the comments posted at Yahoo’s NASCAR site concerning the incident. It really makes one wonder if the old stereotype is far from the truth. It saddens me.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=ap-nascar-crewchief-suspended&prov=ap&type=lgns
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
NEON:
Precisely.
What NASCAR has effectively done,since its inception, is prohibit and prevent competition by “All”, by excluding those who did not fit the prescribed and unacepted image.
It is unfathomable and preposterous, let alone mind boggling, to think only white men can drive race cars.
There are Asian, Indian, Black and Mixed Race highly successful participants in every occupation on this earth…..except almighty NASCAR, which only invites the purest of the pure, as if hitler is their director.
All the excuses made simply do not wash today.
NASCAR has a racist image, is racist and will face a sad and
lonely demise before long, as its purveyors and fans fail to repopulate.
Not sad. Not sad at all…………….Just true.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I believe the two individuals who made the complaint against the crew chief were reps of Howard U, the sponsor of Davis’s car. What better way to deflect attention away from a rookie mistake than to play the race card? I would like to know if the 2 individuals were Black or White. It is very interesting that nowhere in print has this issue been addressed. Perhaps it would not be politically correct to do so. I am appalled that a man has been deprived of his livelihood and his reputation destroyed over hearsay evidence. If it turns out that there is no one else who heard the dreaded N word except the two reps from Howard U, then I believe NASCRAP owes the crew chief a public apology and immediate reinstatement.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
To neon…Coach Dungy would be the first to sing the praises of the Rooney Rule, that fast tracked opportunities for qualified African American and Hispanic head coaches…NASCAR needs a Rooney Rule to fast track efforts to bring people of color into NASCAR…financing is a very important factor regarding diversity and NASCAR…African Americans in the sport say they can’t get the sponsorship to compete on the top NASCAR level…and speaking of finances, NASCAR is hurting right now; seats are empty and more folks will be watching Tiger this weekend than the all white drivers at Sonoma this week.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Excuse me….
If those who alleged impropriety were Black. they have no credibility and are more likely to misrepresent the truth ?
A man has been deprived of his opportunity to work because of misbehavior…and not the color of his skin.
Amazing. At least he had a CHANCE to work, before he blew it.
It seems a lot of people have never gotten and will never get such opportunities in the NASCAR Netherworld.
If any prospective racing fans should happen to read some of the disturbingly ignorant comments of NASCAR proponents,
ticket sales, television ratings and any hope the sport will grow in the future will evaporate.
NASCAR frightens me. I like the concept of racing, but the fan base seems to be still fighting the Civil War.
I say let them win…..the racists can have the entire entitiy.
They deserve it and all the pain they will feel when the “gas” runs dry.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
While this may not be a case of “hearsay” but it is more like “she said he said” as to who heard what and to that where are other people beides the members of the sponsor that heard this and why haven’t they come foward on both sides. Does that make it right? And who gets the big suspension for something that at any other time would be meaningless, not to say just boys will be boys.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Granny and Phyllis- I would have to agree with you Phyllis that their race is not and should not be an issue. I think what makes people question the situation is that the people who are saying Berry said something are Davis’ sponsor reps. While I certainly am not attacking their personal credibility because I don’t think they have any reason to lie, they are not completely independent sources.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I have been a black female NASCAR fan for 10 years. The problem is that racism keeps coming up in NASCAR. This does not happen in the NFL, MLB, NBA or for that matter Indycar. But for some reason ‘incidents’ keeping happening in this sport. WHY???? Until the incidents stop it will be very hard for NASCAR to shed the imagine. I love this sport and I am always sadden by this incidents because it truly diminshes the value of the sport.
The confederate flag does not offend me at all. It is a piece of multi-color cloth from a time long ago. I am an American and I choose to fly the American flag proudly.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Micky- I think the reason we continue to see this as an issue in the sport is because it truly lacks the diversity of any other professional sports league. Granted we are progressing well and there are far more women and minorities in the sport than there ever have been. That said, the sport is still very predominately white and male; this is not characteristic of any other league, except for maybe the NHL.
on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
T.C and Journo,
I am willing to donate as much “internet ink” as you ever need, so please use as much as you see fit.
As far as your credentials – I believe your ever growing web site popularity indicates that you are very worthy to peck at your keyboards, as much as you see fit.
I vote this one of the best sites on the web, for a variety of reasons. Although I am still new here, I have very quickly become a big fan of both of you. Please keep up the great work.
I will limit my comments on the topic at hand, because I feel that if people want problems, they will find them. Once again NASCAR may be using one thing, to accomplish something else.
I will not conspiracy theorize (not too much;) but I wonder what is really going here. I will not dwell on it, but it seems that NASCAR politics are getting deeper and darker (no pun intended;) as time goes by.
I dont see racism as a big problem in this country, except by people using it to further an agenda. There are federal laws to make sure the NO ONE excludes ANYONE in this country based on race, it is over. We all get hassled, from time to time, no matter our skin color, it is part of life. Race should not be used to further a personal cause, that is a crutch. Maybe I am naive, but compare to countries like India where castes are part of life, the good ole USA is truely a land of opportunity for all, no matter ones skin color, I am proud to live here.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 8:20 am
To Phyllis and harryo-I want to make myself perfectly clear. I want to see the most talented individuals compete, regardless of sex and/or origin. Period!
For example, if an african american female has more realized or potential talent than a white american male I prefer to see her compete. And just as importantly visa versa. Forced diversity is not well received on any stage, but natural diversity is embraced.
IHMO:
NASCAR has not excluded participants on sex and/or origin. Rather the shear numbers of interested minorities has historically not been there to show continued support. That can and is changing. A gearhead is a gearhead….regardless of origin!
Folks, just read some of the blogger comments on places like FOX sports, etc. Many of these people have obviously never been to a NASCAR event and have a bassackwards impression of what it’s all about.
Phyllis #22, sorry to say it’s….not true. Not true all…….Just SAD! Some people’s impression that is!
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Gary Pacer:
Sir:
You should be running NASCAR. Your philosophy concurs with the “head in the sand” mentality.
If you do not see racism as a big problem in this country, you are truly ignorant of and insensitive to the unpleasantly dauting occurrences in the lives of us who are not white men.
Naive……no. That is not the word that describes you.
The words you have written are another smug reminder of how far we need to travel in this great country of our to ensure equality.
We all get hassled from time to time?
Sir, you could not begin to grasp the enormity of the problems facing some of your countrymen.
You do not see race as a big problem in this country. I do…..because of you!
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Garry – “but I wonder what is really going here”
I think from NASCAR’s standpoint, what is really going on is they learned some lessons from the Mauricia Grant lawsuit. They are 5-6 months removed from that. I am paraphrasing, but they were accused of allowing a racist environment. This is a clear message that they are not going to allow a racist environment.
“There are federal laws to make sure the NO ONE excludes ANYONE in this country based on race, it is over”
“Maybe I am naive, but compare to countries like India where castes are part of life, the good ole USA is truely a land of opportunity for all, no matter ones skin color, I am proud to live here.”
Gary, I think you are naive. People are excluded every day. It is not as obvious, blatant or pervasive as it used to be. It is not as bad as the caste system. Opportunity is better than China, Iran, Iraq, etc… But discrimination is still here.
We were hiring for a few positions 2-3 years ago. We advertisied for the position and got 60-70 resumes. A few of my employees were assigned to reviewing the resumes and getting it down to a reasonable number to interview.
As they were doing that, I overheard one of their conversations about the screening process. One supervisor (an MBA from a prominent school in the northeast – and I checked, MAss was NOT part of the Confederate States) was explaining that 1) if they had a foreign name, they were out, 2) if they had a “n-word sounding” name, they were out, 3) if they went to an historically black college, they were out, 4) if they graduated college prior to 1980, they were too old for the job and were out, 5) if they were a female they could not handle the physical requirements of the position, they were out.
When confronted, he had all sorts of reasons why those candidates should have been excluded. And, yes, those reasons could have been considered legitimate. However, a lot of those same reasons should have excluded people he was in favor of. It was very clear his first cut was based on race, gender or age.
I will spare you the details, but shortly after that he was separated from the company.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 10:25 am
phyllis – I have to disagree with you that NASCAR has intentionally kept non-white or female drivers out of the sport.
There is an old saying, “follow the money.” There is great potential for NASCAR to make money if they had successful African-American or hispanic drivers…and female too.
When JPM came into NASCAR, the NASCAR marketing & PR machines kicked into gear to really promote the series to hispanic media. Just think of the TV revenue from Central & South America. Think about licensing revenue. More hispanic fans putting their butts in seats. They have no reason to squash JPM and every reason to see him succeed. They REALLY wanted JPM to succeed.
The same held true for Bill Lester. They REALLY wanted to see him succeed. They promoted him. Got him interviews. He just did not do well on track.
Also, if all of the other forms of racing had lots of drivers of African heritage, I would say maybe you have a point. However, that is just not the case. Willy T Ribbs was in CART for a while, but did nto do well. I am not sure, but I think Lewis Hamilton (who has succeeded) is the first black driver in F1.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 10:26 am
“Hearsay” is a statement made by someone other than a witness testifying in court that is being offered to prove the truth of the matter stated. “I heard Ed say that 2 + 2 = 5″ cannot be used to prove that 2 + 2 = 5, but only for the fact that Ed said it. There are tons of exceptions, but that’s the basic rule. Just a shot from the cheap seats.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Jen,
You indict me? You say I am the problem? What are you accusing me of?
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU PROPOSE?
or, are you only interested in pointing fingers and complaining, what is you agenda?
What do you propose?
We have a black president, there are laws protecting ALL people, what is your issue?
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
knobcreekfan……sed
“”I think from NASCAR’s standpoint, what is really going on is they learned some lessons from the Mauricia Grant lawsuit. They are 5-6 months removed from that. I am paraphrasing, but they were accused of allowing a racist environment. This is a clear message that they are not going to allow a racist environment. “”
OK, so what is the issue here???
OK!!!!, so what more do you want?
Do you juts want to complain??
I bet Carl Long would LOVE to be able to blame his issues on being Black, but that is not the case.
EVERYONE gets hassled. LIFE IS NOT FAIR. I am white, but when I am treated unfairly I can not pull out the race card, it is not in my deck.
It is time to move past these accuations, and just live in peace, UNLESS you dont want equal …. is that the case?? Do you want to be superior?? better then everyone??, would that make you happy?
Should you be superior because of your skin color?
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
NEON – “IMHO to single out a minority for a fabricated opportunity simply because he or she is a minority is doing injustice not only to the fans, but more importantly to the individual.”
The reality seems to dispute what you claim it to be NEON.
If NASCAR is “fabricated[ing] opportunity” based on race or gender perchance you could explain why there aren’t more women and minorities in the sport now.
If NASCAR is fabricating anything they are doing a very poor job of it.
More to the point, NASCAR’s heritage makes it an easy target in much the same fashion all forms of racing and it’s use of “evil gasoline” make it a target of the ecco-weenies.
That said NASCAR has done some things (heavily promoting Talladega Nights that portrayed every NASCAR stereotype known to man is an example) that only serve to shoot themselves in their own foot.
On the other hand, those stereotypes are seized upon by segments of the media and used to disparage the integrity of the sport and its fans.
A couple examples:
MSNBC attempted to find racism by planting “Muslims” in the crowds at Martinsville and Texas in 2006 and clandestinely filming the response they received. What they found was 1) no evident racism and 2) and avalanche of criticism for pulling the stunt.
Specifically on the Marc Davis incident is this so-called author/writer who claims NASCAR deserves a visit by Al Sharpton because of the Davis incident.
“So-called” because he can’t even post a factually accurate article, according to him the CC suspended was “Brendan Gaughn” and had to be corrected in the comment thread.
In addition he claims “NASCAR should institute a zero tolerance policy with harsh sanctions and team suspensions for violations.” but fails to note the CC at the center of the incident was suspended.
It’s disingenuous hacks, lying hacks is more accurate, like him and others that do a disservice to the sport and its fans.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Mr Pacer – “I will not conspiracy theorize (not too much;) but I wonder what is really going here. I will not dwell on it, but it seems that NASCAR politics are getting deeper and darker (no pun intended;) as time goes by.”
Seems you are the one that thinks there is a deeper issue here. I think if you actually read what I wrote, you will see I was not complaining about anything. I was not looking for deeper meaning. No politics. Just quite simply that it was alleged in a lawsuit that they allowed an envoironment that allowed discrimination. This situation involves allegations that a licensed crew member made comments that was discriminatory in nature. Accordingly, NASCAR had to act in a manner that was clearly no conducive to discrimination.
I also believe I stated quite clearly I not condone unequal behavior/treatment.
Please work on your reading comprehension.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
knobcreekfan,
You are correct, I misread you point, sorry.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
garry pacer said (in oart):
“Should you be superior because of your skin color?”
nope. just equal, is all. neither better nor worse. just treated the same.
“It is time to move past these accuations, and just live in peace, UNLESS you dont want equal …. is that the case??’
with all due respect: we can’t “move past” the accusations if they are labelled a “throwing the race card” or “hearsay” or somehow unworthy of examination. to propose simply moving on without examining what happened and taking steps to address it is a sure path to a repeat of the incident.
it doesn’t get better by asking us “can’t we all just get along?” it gets better — is changed for the better — only when people speak out and take action.
and garry, we have a black president because lots of us put our hearts and souls into the process and worked very hard to help folks see past the color of president obama’s skin. i was there, in the trenches and working the campaign and i can tell you first hand that racism played a role and it wasn’t pretty out here canvassing and campaigning. the laws to which you refer, however well-intentioned, did nothing to stop that. and i’m in a blue state that was among the first declared to be going for obama on election night.
finally, you said “EVERYONE gets hassled. LIFE IS NOT FAIR. I am white, but when I am treated unfairly I can not pull out the race card, it is not in my deck.”
do you believe that’s what happened here, that marc davis’ people and sponsors “pulled the race card”? i don’t believe that to be the case.
my take? let’s say the other driver was a white male with experience identical to marc davis and he made the exact same error. for ease of discussion, let’s call him “billy joe bob.” is there anything that berry could have yelled in anger at billy joe bob that would carry the same racial overtone as dropping the n-word at marc davis? i can’t think of anything — and that’s my point.
i understand berry being furious and i even agree with him over the reason for his anger. but — to use such a charged racial epithet in that situation was morally inexcusable. what if it had been chrissy wallace? would he have used the c-word? would that have been acceptable?
to me, the issue isn’t fairness or treating people equally or any of that. to me, the issue is: what is moral and ethical behavior that an adult human being should be expected to understand and demonstrate? being furious and “ripping the other guy a new one”, while not necessarily ideal behavior, is morally a long way removed from using the n-word in anger at a black man.
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
I’ve got the answer to the problem of NA$CAR and racism. Become just like the NFL, NBA, and for the most part MLB and therefore if racial slurs were used it would be one sided. See now the problem is solved with the minority now the majority. Oh yeah and don’t allow anyone from below the Mason-Dixion line to compete. that will do it—
on Jun 19th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Marc-
“The reality seems to dispute what you claim it to be NEON.”
Have to disagree w/ ya there. Reality shows that the talent pool has yet to provide a sustainable example. Trust me, there is and will be talent rising from all origins. Like some one said above…look at the Louise Smiths, Willy T Ribbs, Sarah Fishers, Marcos Ambroses, Lewis Hamiltons, Wendell Scotts and Bill Lesters, etc.
“If NASCAR is “fabricated[ing] opportunity” based on race or gender perchance you could explain why there aren’t more women and minorities in the sport now.”
Same answer. There are and have been women, there are and have been minorities, there are and have been competitors from all over.
Here is an example of the shear numbers pool. My kids attend a 5A high school in GA. BTW those are the BIG schools w/ a large athletic talent pool. The football team is really good. Sure they have good coaching, but mainly they have a very deep talent pool to choose from. Across the county, the 2A school has “some” students w/ athletic ability equal to the best 5A athletes, but also completes the roster w/ less talented players to be able to fill all positions. The 5A school team could crush the 2A school. Why? Because they have so much depth.
Why the story? NASCARs talent pool mainly comes from young white males getting involved early in place of other sports or activities. Are there females involved early on? Sure! Are there minorities involved early on? You bet! But pay attention here. The number of young white males competing in the pool vs other groups means the chances of “a” YWM being elevated to the next level is greater. Statistics and probabilities 101 my friend.
“If NASCAR is fabricating anything they are doing a very poor job of it.”
If it’s the diversity program you speak of I say perhaps you are correct. Perhaps not. I don’t believe for 1 second a major corporation wouldn’t love to throw money at a top notch minority driver. Especially if the realized or potential talent is indentfied and sustainable. Everyone has to work hard at this game of racing and life in general. Not just any one group!
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 12:28 am
People are mean to each other.
People are mean to people who are new and different. People get hassled. This is not racism.
IMHO racism is when people honestly think someone else is not as good as them, because of thier skin color, like the castes in India. I dont think that goes on much anymore in the USA. Sure, people blah blah blah, but I dont think they are truely racist. I am aware there are hard core hatepeople, but that not only whites, it it Mexicans, Chinese, Canadians, Africans, Polish, Irish, Jewish, surf nazis, commies, hippies, whippies and dippies, but I think most people…. are just people. Most people know and believe we are are all equal, and I think most people agree with that.
Things are no where near like they were, in 1880, things have changed A LOT. The old racism attirudes are no longer acceptable in this country. BUT ageism still occurs. Jealousism still occurs, hatred between the haves and have nots ” haveism”…
Bascially people are mean to each other. It does not have to be based on skin color. But some people want to play the race card when this occurs, and it is fashionable to act all uppity about it, whne actually. it is just people being mean to others.
I voiced my opinion.. I DID NOT ATTACK ANYONE HERE, or even address others, until they came at me.. DONT GET PERSONAL WITH ME. I stated an opinion. you state yours, and move on. Dont be a “bloggist”. Bloggist- someone who looks down on others on a blog, thinking they are superior. Are you a bloggist?? ; )
Be nice to each other, it is easy, and dont look for trouble.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:17 am
To Gary Pacer
Doesn’t feel nice to be attacked verbally, does it?
Wonder how Marc Davis felt…….?
Also, I wonder what minority, in his or her right mind, would strive to or desire to participate, at any age or stage of life, in the NASCAR arena?
Judging from some of the comments here, it is difficult to imagine how NASCAR could be deemed any more uninviting.
This former fan is distancing, in search of a better group to admire and follow. Right now, Tiger Woods is looking rather awesome, considering the barriers he overcame. Good thing he didn’t want to race cars! There would probably have been race riots.
NASCAR has reaped what it has sown, and the crop is inferior.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 3:07 am
T.C.,
If you don’t think there’s racism in NASCAR — albeit not overt or spoken — tell me how many of your colleagues on pit row are non-whites?
When I read reports that pit crew members are being recruited from the ranks of college football players, how many blacks are being recruited? Now I’ll (Mauricia) Grant you, the recruiters are probably not using the “n-word” and crossing names off their lists, but I’ll bet they’re not adding African-American names to their lists either. (I couldn’t resist the pun.)
When Toyota came into NASCAR, didn’t you read the same xenophobic, thinly-veiled racist remarks I did?
I’ll grant you, not all xenophobics are racists. But a lot are. I’m hardly politically correct, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, perhaps it isn’t just the Aflac mascot.
Micky and Lucy, thank you for stepping up. I know I’m not the only non-white NASCAR fan in the world. (I’m Chinese-American.) In fact, one evening I was riding the bus and I met an African-American college student who was wearing a green 88 AMP Energy Drink twill jacket. NASCAR jackets, particularly the #3 black Earnhardt one, have become a minor fashion craze among urban youths, but this young man knew more about Junior’s career than I did. He came up with a list of Junior’s Nationwide victories faster than I could! He even told me he’d driven both the Car of Yesterdan and the COT at Sears Point and explained the handling differences to me.
West Coast Kenny
Alameda, California
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 5:37 am
NEON – Geesh, nothing like disproving your own contention.
You state “Reality shows that the talent pool has yet to provide a sustainable example.”
Precisely, the lack of “diverse” drivers have little to nothing to do with the number currently in the sport.
As you correctly point out it is about NUMBERS, potential minority drivers are in much smaller numbers for a variety of reasons – how many race tracks are there in Harlem or any number of “barrios” in the country – with the end result being less to choose from.
And BTW, last I checked Marcos Ambrose wasn’t a woman, nor is he a minority.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 6:38 am
hey gary pacer? back ‘er down a bit. no one is attacking you: disagreeing with you, yea. but i don’t read any attacks.
and may i point out that creating yet another label to place on someone (“bloggist”) after posting “be nice to each other” is contradictory? your aguments are interesting but then lose coherence for me.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Neon – “IMHO to single out a minority for a fabricated opportunity simply because he or she is a minority is doing injustice not only to the fans, but more importantly to the individual.”
I agree that it often does a disservice to the individual. People are desparately searching for “that kid” and move them along too quickly and with too much pressure.
Look at Sarah Fisher. A teenager that was showing some talent in the USAC ranks. Won some feature races. Looks like a promising career.
But wait….let’s hurry up and get her in IndyCar. Don’t let her get that valuable seat time in lower ranks. Don’t let her gain some maturity. Let’s get her in over her head and NOW!
She had plenty of funding from Kroger (I am pretty sure it was Kroger). And while she had moments of success, they were outweighed by mistakes. Mistakes that are normally associated with inexperience. Next thing you know, Kroger is gone. She is now in medicore equipment. Then without a ride. She is still involved in IRL, but you have to wonder what her career could have been like if not promoted so quickly.
“The number of young white males competing in the pool vs other groups means the chances of “a” YWM being elevated to the next level is greater.”
There is a drag strip near me. They have a really nice program for kids. Last summer they had 30-35 kids participating. Of that group, there was one girl. Yes, odds are, if a kid makes it big from this group, it will not be a female. Also, she has been doing it mostly because her dad wanted her and her brother to do it. She is also involved in other activities like cheerleading and band. She has told my daughter that she will have to choose between racing and the other activities soon…and racing will not win.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Woah everyone I think we are getting a little heated on this one. You are all entitled to your opinion. Without calling anyone out, lets try to play nice.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Kenny- There are actually quite a few black crew members. Off the top of my head I can’t give you a specific number, but they are out there. NASCAR is also stepping up this recruiting with the D4D program. I believe Phil Horton, a black pit crew coach, is leading the effort for NASCAR. An interesting note, when Brendan Gaughan was running his own team he had several D4D crew members working for him (here is an article about it: http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/truck/02/18/bhm.bgaughan.pit.crew/index.html). I remember one of those recruits was Chris Justice, a former football player. I believe he is a carrier on the Front Row Nationwide car. On top of that there are several black and female NASCAR officials throughout all three series. While it is true these positions are still predominately white and male, there is definitely a lot more diversity then there has ever been.
As far as Toyota goes, the only prominent opposition you saw for that (at least that I can recall) was from Jack Roush. And his concern wasn’t that it was a Japanese automaker, but that they would come in an spend like they have in F1.
I don’t by any means think NASCAR is perfect. We still have a long way to go; but I think there is very good progress being made. It is unfair to take an isolated incident like this and say this is the norm.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Well, as we can see from the comments here, race has nothing to do with humans wanting to sling mud at each other, LOL. I am white, and I am guessing it other whites yelling at me, what should we call that?
When I made up the word “Bloggist”, I was trying to add some humor, to show how silly lables are. It seems, it is now fashionable to call someone racist, and then get all uppity about it. The sad part is, these humans are just being abusive, and race has nothing to do with it.
These days it feels like people are angry, and people are mad, but if bashing others, on any topic, makes them feel better, then I feel sorry for them. People are just being mean to other people, and race has nothing to do with it.
When one person abuses another person, you can make up what ever word you want for it, but when one person happens to be a different color, then it ieasy to call that racist, when really, it is just humans being mean and abusive humans.
I suppose, sometimes, that even my comments may seem abusive. So please, Journo and TC, feel free to delete any of my comments which you feel are out of line, and I will not protest ( too much;). My only intent is to add to the conversation, but I can make mistakes, and I know sometimes I can cross the line.
PS
I really like your web site, it is one of the very few I even bother posting to.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Kenny – I am not sure how you are coming up with…”TC – If you don’t think there’s racism in NASCAR…”
TC said, “Racism is an unfortunate reality in this country. It happens everywhere, everyday. And NASCAR isn’t immune to that.”
Seems pretty clear to me that he is saying there is racism in NASCAR. He also uses the phrase “unfortunate reality” which also implies he upset that racism exists.
I also think you are off base by thinking there is any concerted effort to exclude African-American pit crew recruits. Yes, there might be somebody that is making their decision based on race (hence the unfortunate reality phrase). But, I think the vast majority of teams want the best 7 people they can get…regardless of race/origin/gender.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Journo… spot on. With the exception of drivers NASCAR has many minorities and females in all levels of the sport, and they are increasing in numbers each year.
Drivers are an entirely different animal.
You can teach someone to carry a gascan or change a tire, you can teach someone the ins & outs of the Mythical NASCAR Rule Book so they can professionally conduct themselves as a race official, but you can’t teach someone to be a driver.
You can give him or her the chance that’s all you can do.
What they do with that opportunity is entirely up to the individual.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Thanks Garry. You’re comments are fine. My earlier comment was not directed necessarily at you. I can see this thread starting to spiral though, and I am hoping everyone can play nice with everyone.
on Jun 20th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Hey Knobcreekfan-Thanks and right on.
to Marc-as TC or Journo would say, please read before responding. BTW Last I looked I agree Ambrose is not a woman or a minority, but he is of another national origin (see neon post #20). NASCAR and fans alike could have easily shunned Marcos for being ferenner from down under. But all have come to realize Marcos is talented racer, with a cool accent and first class guy that gave up his top status in Australian SuperCars to persue the American dream of racing stock cars in the good old US of A. He has woked damn hard at it and didn’t win a contest or have an avenue through a “program” to pave his way.
OBTW Sorry if I offended w/ an invite to Statistics and probabilities 101. Geeeesh…looks like we need a refresher course once again…later gator!
on Jun 21st, 2009 at 1:50 am
T.C. and Journo,
A big mea culpa from me. I was not aware of any of the D4 members on Pit Row. It’s interesting that NASCAR and the press aren’t making more of this, especially in light of the Mauricia Grant lawsuit.
I’ll be more careful before I spout off in the future.
West Coast Kenny
Alameda, California
on Jun 21st, 2009 at 12:42 pm
McKenzie – I find it funny that you use golf as your example of inviting an unbiased environment. Please do not forget that until 1990, Tiger could not have been a member in several of the clubs on the tour. Some of the clubs dropped their tour event so they did not have to (gasp…) actually allow black members into their clubs. And to this day, Augusta National (home of one of the most prestigious events in the world) does not allow women members.
on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Neon – “OBTW Sorry if I offended w/ an invite to Statistics and probabilities 101. Geeeesh…looks like we need a refresher course once again…later gator! “
A refresher? No, not needed, in fact those stats are an argument why more minorities aren’t involved at the driver level of the sport.
With less involved at all levels the chances of them entering the sport at the top level is far less.
And for those that made the assertion that major sponsors are part of the problem, it’s possible but anecdotal evidence suggests that’s not true.
You mention Bill Lester, Dodge poured a butt load of cash into his NASCAR efforts.
As much as you dislike a “program,” the Drive for Diversity is paying dividends.
Michael Cherry is sponsored by Nationwide, Jaun Pitta won this past weekend and is sponsored by Copart, Paul Harraka has Dominos and Briggs and Stratten as sponsors etc.
on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
knobcreekfan……I know about Tiger
I reference Tiger Woods because he exists and succeeds in the sport of golf, and is the first sports billionaire.
I am associated with one of the clubs which was unkind to Tiger, early on, and now they beg him…….really beg him to play their tournament. Tiger, of course, has the last laugh as he says NO every year.
At least Tiger is out in the world for all to see, like him or not.
If NASCAR had a Tiger…..well just think about it.
What was watched more, over the last several days?
Golf or NASCAR
Tiger turned pro in 1997.
NASCAR has been making excuses since the days of bootlegging.
So be it.
FORE !
on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Marc-You truly do exhaust me. Do ya suppose, even for a minute that any of those talented drivers you mention would have a fair shot w/o a program? I do! Simply because they are exactly that….talented and put their nose to the grindstone.
BTW looks like my self promoted Taz Marcos impressed yesterday. That’s all him, and his team of course. And Little Debbie.
Listen, I don’t doubt that NASCAR’s diversity program doesn’t bring awareness through other cultures and genders. That we can agree on. What I do not favor is a quota or even worse a passover of a talent because he, or she is ineligible because they do not fit a diversity profile. Everyone into the same pot and the best rise to the next level.
on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm
McKenzie – please do not misunderstand me….I like Tiger. And maybe I misunderstood you, but I gathered that you are less interested in NASCAR because they do not have African-American drivers…and more interested in golf because they have one. My point is only that I just do not think golf is a great example of a sport that is doing a great job of bringing up players of color and welcoming them with open arms.
Shoot, you give your own example of people not being nice to him. Then you have Tiger getting ready to become the youngest player to win the Masters and you have Fuzzy making his comments. Not the emotionally charged situation as you have here, but very inappropriate comments anyway. Again, not welcomed with open arms.
Yes, I wish NASCAR had a Tiger. And believe me, NASCAR wishes NASCAR had a Tiger.
But…
PGA Tour got very lucky that (as history will likely show) the best player in the history of the sport happens to be of color. PGA Tour did nothing to bring him along. They were not there at 4-5-6 years-old to get him trained. They did nothing to subsidize him growing up. He was handed to them.
Tiger was not 1 of 5/10/20/30/100 African-American players that PGA Tour was working through the ranks. As far as I know, Tiger is the only African-American player on the tour. Am I right? If PGA Tour is so great and welcoming, where are the others? If they are not there, why aren’t they there. Why are you not outraged?
If NASCAR was the only racing series that did not have African-Americans drivers and all of the others had lots, I would say, “yes, you are correct, it is NASCAR’s fault. And they get what they deserve.” However, if you look around at IRL, USAC, ALMS, WoO, etc.. they are just not there. There is one in F1 and a few in different ranks in NHRA. But certainly not in abundance.
Back to my local drag strip. Of the 30-35 kids, there were zero kids of color. No African-Americans, no Hispanics, no Asians. Clearly this is not NASCAR’s fault.
I will not give you the argument that there are not tracks in Harlem/Compton or they are too poor. I have several families of color that live on my street. The drag strip is closer to us than the soccer fields. They have plenty of money to go racing. However, their kids (17 kids from 7 families) have chosen soccer, lacrosse, football, baseball,volleyball & tennis. Not racing. Again, not NASCAR’s fault.
So back to TC’s original point…NASCAR is not perfect, but no worse than most other industries/sports.
on Jun 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am
This is obviously a very sensitive subject, and rightly so. However, why does it always go back to the color of our skin? It appears that the subject is only a sensitive one when the one that feels there is an unjustice is African American. Do you ever hear a white man declare in a sport of dominate African American that he has been treated unfairly? It seems that minority is used when it best suits the African American and the white man just has to accept an unjustice, or a direct disagreement, as “the heat of the moment”.
When two white male drivers have a difference of opinion and words are exchanged, there are calls to the hauler, things are dealt with and the life goes on. But, let the same comments made between one black male and one white male and the outcome should be entirely different and the situation is unacceptable?
Race cars do not care about the color of the skin of those who work on it and drive it, we should not care either.
Women at the track do not complain about some of the sponsor women’s dress, or lack of, they have made the decision to accept it or not go. However, in contrast to that, the color of skin is something that we are born with and cannot change, we should all accept that.
Everyone on this board has one thing in common (NASCAR) and it has brought all of us to one spot, no matter what the color of skin, I hope everyone can keep that in mind when commenting back and forth to each other.
Stacy
on Jun 23rd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
neon – “Marc-You truly do exhaust me. “
Apparently not, you keep answering my comments.
“BTW looks like my self promoted Taz Marcos impressed yesterday. That’s all him, and his team of course. And Little Debbie.”
Been impressed with the Devil Racer since his first V8 championship. And as a sidenote his protegee in V8′s Jamie Whincup may be headed to NASCAR.
“What I do not favor is a quota or even worse a passover of a talent because he, or she is ineligible because they do not fit a diversity profile.”
So tell me where that’s happened in the last 15-20 years.
Arguing a hypothetical gets you nowhere least of all me.
on Jun 23rd, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Let’s all agree to disagree and resume our wonderful interaction when the playing field has been leveled and “white men do not have to simply endure injustice when they play in predominantly Black sports and make millions of dollars while being abused and upstaged. Hello STACY !
Yes….
Let’s talk again in perhaps….NEVER.
That’s when I predict there will be a Black NASCAR Cup driver.
NEVER.
I am right, arent’t I ?
Back to golf. It is integrated. SMILE Go Tiger !
Regards to all, in appreciation of the most intelligent interaction.
M.
Out
P.S. Someone told me the “white half” of Obama is President.
“Rationalization is bliss…”
on Jun 24th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Marc-Do you consider this a hypothetical situation? I am white, a male, a US citizen, I have no physical handicaps, married w/ family and I am financially independent. Am I entitled to be a part of NASCARs diversity program as a candidate? If so, please let me know how to apply and actually be considered. Hmmmm….hypothetical???
In the end we both seem to agree that motorsports is “the” sport of choice. Fenders or not, tin tops or open cockpit, paved or not, US or foreign soil……may the red mist live!
Sorry Mckenzie, I like Golf and love race as well, but the anology just isn’t there for me. Wheter it’s Tiger, Tony Dungy, Frank Robinson, Obama or Michael Jordan I am sure they would all trade the label “first man of color to….” and replace it w/ “the best at their game…..period”.
As I quoted earlier: “You limit a great man by bringing race into his accomplishments. Integrity has no color. Character has no color…..”
on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Neon:
Money has a color……and it’s not black.
on Jun 24th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Mckenzie – “Let’s talk again in perhaps….NEVER.
That’s when I predict there will be a Black NASCAR Cup driver.”
Don’t watch much NASCAR do you?
Here’s a clue look-up the name Marc Davis and while your at it look for the Cuban-American driver Aric Almirola.
I do believe they are both in NASCAR and both are in what is generally called minority races.
on Jun 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Neon you didn’t answer the question, here let me repeat it:
So tell me where that’s happened in the last 15-20 years?
Just to be clear that’s in ref to your apparent belief there may be some sort of a quota or capable drivers have been passed in favor of a minority.
You contention that your not eligible for the Drive for Diversity Program is nothing but a dodge.
Bet you’re not qualed for food stamps, aid to dependent children or an Obama bailout either, so what.
on Jun 24th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Fair enough Mckenzie. You tell me the individual men or women of color you wish to succeed in NASCAR. If this person of your choosing is IMHO worthy and capable of being the best of all racers, I will pull for them 100% regardless of origin. Let’s be specific here and not generic.
BTW I pull for talent and determination and spirit above all anyway.
on Jun 25th, 2009 at 8:39 am
McKenzie – I am fine with agreeing to disagree. However, my main point for you is, be careful. Don’t bury your head in the sand and think golf is and will always be integrated.
You have one player. There was no system in place to groom Tiger in the first place. There is no system in place to groom the next Tiger. When Tiger is gone, everyone is going to wonder what happened…we WERE integrated.
Quick story…there is a saying in sports, “a win fixes everything.” Team morale gets better, player confidence improves, ticket sales increase, etc…
I was involved with a race team that was performing really bad. We had most of the tools in place that we should have been doing better though. Most fingers pointed to the crew cheif. The team owners refused to make any changes to the organization though.
Sponsor was upset and talking about not renewing. Driver was upset and was not going to renew. Several crew guys were upset and looking for jobs. It was ugly.
Well the owners finally agreed that we needed to make some changes. That was the morning of a race. “Let’s get home and do it all tomorrow.” However, we won that day. It was a fuel mileage race.
We never should have won that race. We were a lap down the whole day. The crew chief even called the driver in for fuel with 5 to go. The driver was so ticked, he ignored him.
The checkers fly and everybody is happy. One owner says to me, “see, we just needed a little patience.” All of the problems we had 5 hours earlier we magically fixed. So no changes were made. We live happily ever after…
Or until we run like crap the next 16 races. Sponsor switches teams. Driver leaves. Most of the crew left. By the end of the following year, the team is out of business.
Golf has a big win in Tiger. No doubt about it. But nothing changed in the fundamentals of the system to ensure Tiger is not a fluke.
Second point, money cannot buy you happiness or talent. Bill Lester had a BUNCH of financial support from Dodge. Willy T Ribbs had a BUNCH of backing from Bill Cosby. Neither had much talent.
on Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Still no answer NEON?
Still looking for that mythical driver that was passed over for a minority driver?
on Jun 25th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Marc-I truly am sorry for the delay. Pardon me for work and coaching my baseball team today has tugged me away from the computer.
As far as answering your question (at first I thought your were calling me a “Dodge” fan LOL) here goes. Answer: Me, the kid down the street just like me, the kid winning races at my local short track just like me, the kid just like me that has the most talent I’ve seen in a while, but just doesn’t have the financial means to advance. Is he, or she eligible for D4D I ask you yet again? Is that a hypothical answer or real situation I ask you? Hypothetical? Nope. Real? You betcha and it happens every day.
Forgive me if I don’t get the title correct, as I admitedly cannot find your original post on the TNI last month, where You mentioned being the top blogger of the NASCAR internet, or something of the sort. Question: is that self imposed or sanctioned by a group. I honestly do not know.
Reason being? You demand my immediate response? Hmmmm that’s is just plain sillyness. I have other things to do and hope that you do well.
Now, back to my question of you….Ummmmm….last week (#56 above). Last time I looked Marcos Ambrose “is” of another National Origin which is what I mentioned. No comprehendo?
Hey I have a grand idea. Remember the Red Bull search where drivers were selected based on talent and marketability…soley? Now you are an educated and knowledgeable gear-head, from what I’ve read, but that was a pretty good crop of talent (Scott Speed, Paul Edwards, etc) wasn’t it? And guess what? No strings attached. OK maybe youthful age.
Guess it’s time to move on…… and BTW you don’t have to respond to the Marcos deal. I like te fact that we both appreciated Australian V8 Supercup! Later gator…
on Jun 26th, 2009 at 5:33 am
NEON – HUH?!
That 1st para is an answer? No it’s nonsense, and another dodge of the question.
My lilly-white butt isn’t eligible for the D4D program either, so what. You keep trying to classify D4D as some sort of quota system and it’s not.
It just allows them access to better equipment in some cases, better sponsors and most importantly higher profile with regards to the press.
The program guarantees nothing beyond that.
“Forgive me if I don’t get the title correct, as I admitedly cannot find your original post on the TNI last month, where You mentioned being the top blogger of the NASCAR internet, or something of the sort.”
Did you really have to ask, or really have to search for a past post here to find the answer?
Wouldn’t it have been easier to click on my name, then on the blog page entitled “Accolades?”
Yeah, I just made it all up. /sarcasm tags not optional.