June 4th, 2009 
T.C. In light of today’s announcement that starting this weekend at Pocono NASCAR will make all restarts double file, I thought it might be fun to get some of your thoughts on what else you would change or add to competition. It sounds as though many people are happy NASCAR made this change, and hopefully it will lead to some better racing.
Let me kick this off with a couple of suggestions. One is from me, and another from one of our great readers, George. They both have to do with qualifying.
First, here is George’s take on qualifying:
If I were in charge of competition, I would elect to start each year with a clean slate. When you show up at Daytona you have to get in the race based on performance. Keep the same format, but no more starting the race on owner points, past champions, etc. If after the first five events they want to have owners points get starting spots then so be it. I think the best is when it is all down to weekly performance.
How great would it be for qualifying to actually have a little bit of drama? I got this email from George following bump day for the Indy 500. Those nail-biting final minutes of the last day to qualify for the 500 are crazy intense. Imagine if it came right down to the wire for somebody like Dale Jr. or Tony Stewart to qualify for a race!
My suggestion for qualifying comes from the same place the double file restarts came from; the All Star race. What if we threw in a pit stop during qualifying? It would certainly shake things up and make it more interesting. Plus, it gets the crew more involved. You would not only have to have fast laps, but also a fast pit stop, and good entry and exit from pit road. All I keep thinking about was Tony Stewart leaving his stall after two tires, and having to throw it in reverse to get the left sides.
I feel like either qualifying suggestion would make the normally monotonous time trial sessions more entertaining, and I bet the tracks would sell more tickets for pole day.
Now I will turn it over to you. Feel free to either comment on the double file restart situation and/or throw out your own suggestions. I know Neon will throw out his heat racing idea…
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How about the fastest 42 cars make the field every week. If one of the big names has a bad day and doesn’t make a race, then he just doesn’t make it. The 43rd spot would be the past champion’s provisional spot.
My suggestions:
1) top 43 cars qualify on speed each week – no provisionals.
2) Top 25 cars get points. 200 for winner-100 for 2nd, decreasing by 10 pts each place to 10th (50 pts)- 11th through 25th places start at 15 points, decrement by 1 point each place (25th gets 1 Pt)
20 points for leading a lap, 100 points for most laps led.
Yes, this idea is top-heavy in points, but it does reward consistency in a season and in each race, with a premium for top 5 finishes.
I agree with the fastest 43 and the qualifying having a 4 tire pitstop, but also invert the top 4 or 6 or 8 or 10 or 12 or in some cases the whole feild
Tha fsstest could raw an invert number
It would be fuo see them work their way to the front
Ron
I love the idea of the fastest cars making the field each week..but the sponsors might not. JJ not making the race at LMS would not go over well. The top 35 thing is about making sure big money sponsors see their cars run. I have an idea…next time qualifying is rained out..INVERT THE FIELD!!! lol
You want to make the fans happy? Dump the stupid Chase and come up with a SEASON-LONG championship system.
You want to add drama to the final 10 races? Just add a 100 point bonus for winning any of the final 10 races. That’ll add drama and we will actually have a legitimate champion instead of a welfare champion.
Interesting…..If they threw in a pit stop (even 2-tires) during qualifying, that would pretty much force the “start-and-park” guys to spend some major money to hire a quality race-day pit crew. But it sure would make for a much better show!
Why don’t they drop the top-35 rule (a.k.a. – pseudo francishing) and go back to the old rule where teams have to manage a fixed number of provisional starts. To keep the stars in the races, let each team have up to 6 provisionals per season. Spots 1-40 should be set by speed. Positions 41 and 42 should be reserved for provisionals, set by owner points. The Past Champ’s spot, 43, should only be given to PC’s that have won their championship within the last 10 years (sorry Bill Elliott!). If there are no provisionals or PCs, set the last 3 spots by speed.
No freebies, No locked in pts, No provisionals, No Lucky Dogs, No restrictor plates, bring back 1/2 way bonus, actually “use” rain tires on road courses when it rains, lower ticket prices, junk the butt ugly COT, fuel injected OHC V8′s, allow tire competition,
Like Daytona’s Dual 150′s….split the field and only top finishers (period) advance to the final, designate flex start time to beat incoming weather, regen “The Rock” and N. Wilkesboro, only single car teams, no sponsor blockouts (ie Sprint vs Verizon), No Chase…..
I asked you about your opinion on pit stops during qualifying a few weeks back. I’d love to see a pit stop required at every track. Yes, it would drag out qualifying, but if Nascar wants more excitement it’s a big way to do it.
I have always hated the top 35 rule. The fastest 43 cars should race, no matter who they are.
1) fastest cars make the race. No provisionals. The drama at Indy…which is still nothing like it used to be…is that the driver needs to stand on the gas to make the race. For 4 laps. Very similar to the drama around the men’s NCAA tournament. If you lose, you go home. It is not that you had a bad night, but since you are the #2 seed, you get a mulligan. You go home…season over, maybe college career over.
2) All sorts of management philosophy books will tell you…reward the type of behavior you want. The current points system rewards consistent, above average performance. The uproar a few years ago was that Matt could win the championship while just running along and collecting top-10′s & top-5′s and minimal wins. Make wins count…and count BIG. Make it worth the risk.
3) shorten the races. It is crazy (and boring) to have an event where a main goal for the first 3 hours is to hang around (close to the front if you can), stay out of trouble, set yourself up for the last 50-75 laps and then see what you have. The Boston Marathon is televised, but I do not know many people that watch it or find it thrilling. But people will watch the Olympic 4×100 meter relays and find it exciting.
4) make the cars less stable with better horsepower. Let’s watch the cars slide through the corners. Then it will be more about the driver and less about the car, engine, aero, track position. It has always been said in road racing that rain makes the real drivers shine. It takes away horsepower advantages, aero advantages or issues, etc… It is the driver and car control. Let’s make this about the driver, his car control and not dirty air.
I disagree with getting rid of the safe-35 rule. NASCAR needs fans watching on TV, coming to the track and buying merchandise – and bouncing a Gordon or a Busch in favor of (no offense) Dave Blaney isn’t going to make people want to tune in or show up (and what better way of p***ing off the Gordon fans who made the trip to, for example, Dover than keeping him out of the race?).
I think the problem is because there’s no reward for hard racing during the early and middle stages of the race (except for the bonus points for leading a race, all the drivers are simply trying to stay out of trouble for the first 400 or so miles of a 500 mile race) and (2) the penalties for pushing hard and crashing are worse than the benefits of gaining another position or two (it’s akin to a real estate agent taking the offer on the table instead of pushing for a higher price and jeopardizing the entire deal).
So, if I were in charge, I would institute two changes to scoring:
(1) drivers are penalized for hanging back in the pack/rewarded for running towards the front during the course of the race (punish a Carl Edwards for hanging at the back at Talledega). This would give drivers an incentive to push hard for the entire race and not just the last 50 laps and a driver who ran near the front for a while would have something to show for his efforts even if he faded later in the race.
(2) I would give drivers the option to drop one or two races from their point standings. This would allow them to push hard through the whole race and not just at the end, knowing that crashing or blowing up the engine wasn’t going to cost them a shot at the championship.
There are some great ideas here!
I love the idea of a pit stop for qualifying. Kasey is my driver and he consistently picks up spots on pit road; his pit crew is amazing.
The deal with pit stops is that unless you are listening to the in-car audio or watching it on TV (assuming they actually SHOW your driver), you may not realize just how well that pit crew is doing.
I can’t tell you anything about anyone else’s crew because I don’t watch their stops – but…if they had to pit during qualifying, the pit crews would all be in the spotlight for that brief segment.
How cool would it be if one pit crew was showcased on the pre race show each week? That would be huge (and interesting!). Then again, that’s coverage, not the actual race.
I would like to suggest to NASCAR that they allow all cars on the lead lap and in front of the leader, but behind the pace car to pass the pace car at the one to go signal so the leader is the actual car taking the green flag. This would recognize the leader by giving him a clear track for the start. It would also reward gamblers who stay out by bringing them to the back of the field. Additionally, cars with older tires who may be pushing the envelop would now be starting behind the leaders. Desperate drivers on the tail end of the lead lap have taken out many good cars fighting to stay on the lead lap.
As much as I would love to see a qualification that was two laps and required a pit stop, I am afraid that a track like Pocono it would be an all day affair. If we used three provisionals at each event, one for past champion, one for high in owners points, and one to promoter that would be good. Everyone showing up would have a shot at making the field. If a big name crashed out in quals, then the promoter could use his provisional to put him in. It gives the small teams a better chance to make the field. The way it is now, all the ones out of the top 35 are competing for 8 or 7 if a champion provisional is used.
I think all of you fastest 43 cars people might change your mind if your driver had a qualifying accident like Jeff Gordon had last week. Do you really want a race that does not include Jeff Gordon or someone of his caliber and instead has another start and park? Think straight people. Some form of provisional system is NEEDED. I don’t really like the top 35 rule either. I don’t think many fans do, but we need to go back to the provisional system Nascar had before the top 35 and chase garbage came along. And JT as far as Bill Elliot goes he has not used his past champions provisional this year. He has qualified on time. That is the reason the Wood Brothers cut back, so they could save money and do better at select tracks.
Decrease the field to 36 and get rid of the worst of the turtles.
Stop giving points for leading a lap and instead give them to the best four tire pitstop of the race. Finishing on the lead lap could be given a bonus as well.
GET RID OF THE STUPID CHASE!!!!!
Have the points emphasize winning more than they do.
Get rid of the lucky dog once a race has reached its halfway point.
steve – I am sure we will have to agree to disagree, but do you see the irony in your comment? We are talking about ways to bring some excitement back into the sport because attendance is down and has been for several years. Ratings are down and have been for several years. If, as you say, fans tune in/attend because they primarily wanted to watch their favorite driver, then ratings/attendance would certainly not be down. I think the vast majority of fans watch/attend to see a good race.
Personally, I like to watch racing of all forms…fenders, no fenders, off-road, dirt, pavement, oval, street, road course, drag, motorcycle, whatever. I do not care if I have never heard the names or cannot pronounce the names of the drivers. As long as it is a good race, I will watch.
I am good with your idea of dropping some races. From an excitement standpoint, make it a bigger number than 1-2. If you have already had a dnf or 2, then you are stuck being conservative the rest of the year.
Also, I am good with the idea of trying to make drivers work all race. However, I do not think you can penalize for hanging back. That would just be too hard to police on any type of objective basis. But, like I said earlier, provide incentives for the type of behavior you want. Pay points and money for leading at different stages of the race.
Knobcreekfan and Steve both of you are spot on. Stage incentives w/ bonus turns lollygaggers into leaders and leaders into winners.
BTW I get tickled to here tier 1 drivers complain when a tier 2 or 3 drivers is involved in an accident before 1/2 way claiming they need to wait until 20 to go before racing. I thought the start of the race is when you start racing.
Let’s institute 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 bonus pts. where one of those pays even more than the other two but it’s not until after the race than straws are drawn to determine. Do ya think teams would run harder throughout???
Also, Knobcreekfan and KR both spot on in yesterday’s Long debate (no pun intended).
OK, here are my suggestions:
While a required pit stop would add excitement and drama, it would be too expensive for the teams. Many over-the-wall crews do not arrive until race day. Forcing the teams to provide additional lodging, meals, etc. would not be a good idea.
Now for the real fix:
Take a chapter from the past and return the second round of qualifying. The top 25-30 cars are locked in during the first round. Cars not locked in MUST re-qualify in the second round. Teams would not be allowed to stand on times as in the past. If you’re not in for the first round, you must re-qualify. This way all cars are running under the same track conditions. If a superstar driver crashes during first-round qualifying, he gets another chance tomorrow.
I recall back in the glory days it paid pretty well for a driver to be leading at the halfway point in the race. We also had the “Winston Million” for drivers who qualified. I’m guessing all of these things stopped simply because Winston had way more money to throw around than any sponsor since.
I agree the chase needs to go. It’s a joke. They can’t start penalizing drivers for hanging back, that would be impossible. For me the best way to bring fans back and make things more exciting is simple. Make everything just like it was in 1985. Great racing, drivers with personalities, and one hell of a show every week.
I would love to see the 1/2 way cash pay out That brought the drivers and teams to a goal and they raced for it. Sometimes the race is dull due to drivers hanging out until the last laps to really race.
As for qualifing, I think a manditory pit stop at selected tracks would be fun. If we had less races I could see doing it Indy style, and/or do a second round of qualifying. It seems at times there is too much T.V. coverage and I think that makes new fans less interested come race day. Having 30+ speedweeks like there is at Daytona would be way to much for the casual fan.
Journo – you made this comment in the Long debate, but it is also applicable to this discussion. “The top-35 rule isn’t meant to penalize small teams it is meant to reward those competitors who compete every weekend and are committed to the sport.”
So, let’s look at who was out of the top-35 at the end of 2008 – GEM – #10, Roger Penske – #77, Wood Brothers, Richard Petty, Haas CNC, Hall of Fame. I admit, I have not looked at who entered what races, but I am pretty sure that (except Kyle & his TV break) they all attempted every race. Those were all owners that at least tried to compete every weekend and were committed to to the sport. Yet, they are not rewarded.
To me, the top-35 is bad for racing & business because it increases the barrier to entry. That reduces competition. Reduction of competition is bad.
It is very difficult for a team to start-up (and not buy a team in the top-35 or hire a past champion) and survive. And do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is against the little guy. We saw it with MWR – a well funded car with BK & Dominos. Goes home too many times, funding goes away. Competition goes away. Red Bull has survived but primarily because they are self-funded. Most other sponsors would have been fed up with dnq’s and left.
Knobcreekfan- I wasn’t making an argument for the top-35 rule, I was simply stating what the point of it is. It is in place to reward competitive, committed teams. Has that worked? Yes and no. But I do know it is not there to hurt independent or small teams. Should NASCAR get rid of it? You tell me.
Just read an official announcement of the new restart rules. Seems I jumped the gun and was wrong. NASCAR will wave all cars on the lead lap that are behind the pace car and ahead of the race leader to the tail end of the restart. Will watch how it works this weekend.
Journo – “Has that worked? Yes and no. But I do know it is not there to hurt independent or small teams. Should NASCAR get rid of it? You tell me.”
I think you know my position, but so we are clear…I think it has failed miserably. As you said, it is in place to “reward competitive, committed teams.” The problem is, it is very difficult to be outside the top-35 and BE competitive.
You dnq and you lose even more ground to the guys in the top-35. Most of the other guys are working on race setups and you are sweating bullets about qualifying setups.
IF you qualified, the race starts and the top-35 guys most likely have better handling cars than you did because they had hours of actual track time. That hurts competition.
Also, it has hurt on the sponsorship side. As you know, once a company has tried NASCAR and gotten out, it will be a LONG time before that company and the marketing folks that put their career on the line will think about getting back in. And, their competitors take note as well.
NASCAR finally gets a “technology” company involved (HP – DLP). Lots of fanfare. They advertised all of the time. They DNQ enough, HP leaves the sport.
So now we sit in dire need of sponsor dollars and we burned a bunch of bridges over the last few years. Even after the economy picks up, there will be fallout.
Money or points will not work in todays Nascar. In the old days their racecar were their biggest expense. Now it is not a teams biggest expense maybe Carl Long’s. Maybe give 500 points for a team who can bring the most transporter’s to the track, or 1000 points for the best paint job on their Motorcoach. You could fine the driver who leads the most laps 200,000 dollars and take away all their points. Guy’s you need to be real there is no fix to get the drivers today to race. So my idea is to reverse the purse and points and pay the last place car the top purse and give him the most points.
I like the idea of double file restarts and waving the tail end cars around. I was at Dover this weekend and it gets really confusing trying to figure out who is really racing who, I found myself looking at the scoring tower way too much. I believe there needs to be a provisional I would have been very disapointed if Jeff would not have made the race or Jimmie a few years ago when he spun out qualifying. Heck if Jr misses the race half the fans won’t show up sooo it’s not gonna happen. Adding a pit stop would be cool but not at every track it takes 3 laps to get up to speed at Daytona not to mention it would take all day. Do like the 2 day qualifying idea but that could increase costs expecially for the guys that stayed the extra day and still didn’t make the race. If the Chase stays (haven’t really decided on this one as you can tell I’m somewhat new and it’s the only way I know) I do believe that the team/driver that is leading at the end of the first 26 needs to be given 10 points or what ever the points for winning a race is going to be. I heard Jeff Gordon mention once that every car from 35th or so back should be given the same points and money so they stop trying to fix them and bring them back out on the track. 35 may be too many these days but at least we won’t see the miracle fixes and return of issues like the weekend with the start and parkers trying to jump each other for one spot.
For those of you like me that watch F1 are familiar w/ the most exciting part of the Grand Prix weekend (besides the standing start of course). It’s 3 round knockout qualifying. It’s the way to go and NASCAR could easily adopt this format w/ no more cost.
Rather than me explain the details, simply watch Speed TV tomorrow morning (that’s Sat 6/6) from 7:00-8:30. While watching, pay attention to how it’s done. This could be your homework assignment for the weekend and maybe TC & Journo could open up for comments in the future.
BTW if that’s too early for ya, set your DVRs and no I don’t work for Speed TV.
I forgot to mention it’s the Turkish Grand Prix from Istanbul.
Ditch current qualifying format and adopt 20/20 format which requires you to race in. First 20 are set by the finishing order of last weeks race. Everyone else lines up for a short qualifier (less than a fuel run) based on how they finished in the previous week (21-43, non-qualifiers, non-entrants) and run for it. The first 20 across take positions 21-40. Sanctioning body has 3 provisionals.
Advantages are too numerous to list here, but if you want to create interest, reward winning, encourage racing, give fans something to talk about during the week instead of drug testing, heavy handed rule enforcement, and other non-racing stuff, turn the focus back to racing.
Everyone races every week. It may be in the qualifier only, may be in the main, my be both, but everyone who shows up (and passes inspection) races. This is a guarantee that could lure sponsors back to the sport.
No more qualifying testing, no more qualifying setups, no more disadvantages due to draw or weather changes. Everything is settled by racing with racing setups. More laps racing will improve setups, improve this car and improve the competition.
Rewards winning. Not only do you get the money and points, but you get the pole next week and first pit selection. Gets real important at a lot of tracks.
Every race builds on the previous and sets up the next. Right now there is no importance, except for points. Now the importance of every track immediately increase.
Better TV package. What would you rather watch – two laps against the clock or 25 cars fighting to make the show? Why do you think Daytona runs qualifiers?
Rainouts (like Pocono) no problem. Line up first 20 by previous finish and next 20 by owners points, with 3 provisionals.
On and on and on and on it goes.
If you want to improve racing, race.
Like the double file restarts – cost to implement is $0 bucks but requires lots of guts, which will probably kill it.
Okay, all of you who want only the fastest drivers each week to make the field: post your credit card numbers and pledge your mortgages in an escrow account to reimburse fans of the popular drivers who miss the races due to accident or other mishap. I think attendance will go down if this happens as some fans would not wish to commit to a race weekend.
West Coast Kenny
Alameda, California
I like the idea of qualifying races. It would really increase attendance on Saturdays. I’d love to see it done the way it is at my Sat.night dirt track: 3 or 4 heats with the field set inverse to points so that JJ, JG, etc. would have to race their way to the front. Qualify 40 cars this way plus 3 provisionals and everybody would be protected. You could even offer some points so that the big guns didn’t lay back during the heats to avoid wrecking.
As for the races themselves, I like the double file restarts and letting the cars ahead of the leader go around. Several top ten cars got caught on the tail end of the lead lap last week at Dover when yellow came out during green flag stops and it cost them big time.
Left Coast Kenny-I get what you are saying, mainly because NASCAR fan base is so heavily tied to the driver of their choosing and not to the quality of the race itself. That is why NASCAR could never adopt the East and West series at the Cup level. If Gordon fans could never see Jeff race because he is in the other division you’d either have to pick a new driver or quit watching even if there is great racing within your division
I’d be willing to invest money into that kitty you speak of if, and only if, you would be willing pay me a handsome return on my investment as the racing gets better.
Good, no great drivers, will be in the show most of the time and rewarded for their efforts based on ability, no popularity. I support the 2-mulligan idea to help out in the odd circumstance.
Correction. My last sentence made no sense. What I meant to say is that great drivers will rise to the occasion when pushed hard to perform. That is what you all ultimately want….right?
I can go to the circus if I just want to take in a fun show.
I don’t believe many have mentioned this, but how about ditching the mandated single gear ratio at Pocono and let the drivers shift again? Ever since the implementation of the single gear rule, plus the COT, racing is pretty much a snoozer there. Let the drivers drive!
Neon – “I’d be willing to invest money into that kitty you speak of if, and only if, you would be willing pay me a handsome return on my investment as the racing gets better.”
I am with you there. The racing would get better. And ultimately the attendance & ratings would get better.
Frankly, from a business standpoint, if a fan is making their purchasing decision (to attend/watch) based solely on the fact that their driver is in the race or not, then I do not want that fan. I cannot build a business based on them.
At some point, that driver is going to retire (or god forbid, get injured) and quit driving. Those fans are not race fans. They are a fan of the driver. I want to a grandstand full of race fans.
RaceFan58 – Yes, let’s get rid of a lot of the”cost saving” rules that have been put in place. Most of those rules did nothing more than increase costs and hurt competition.
The reduction in testing did nothing more than increase the importance on shaker rigs and simulation software. I think a lot of owners will tell you it is cheaper to test than buy/install/implement a shaker rig and sim software.
How about making going to the Races cheaper. No charge for parking, reasonable price on food, drink, and tickets. Don’t raise the price of of everything because the tracks and the vendors know they can get it out of the fans. Nascar fans are in a recession and Nascar does not care.
For 2 fans to attend a race with decent seats, parking, food and drink (not beer). You will spend at least $400.00.
Let us all in the garage not just the rich people. Designate areas for the fans.
LET THE FANS HAVE SOMETHING BACK.
Since THE FANS BUILT NASCAR LET THE FANS HAVE SOMETHING BACK. All of us fans love the sport that is why 150,000 people show up every week.
1. Put wiper blades on the cars. If it rains, tough. Slow down and race. That’s what the rest of us have to do.
2. Increase the vehicle weight and get rid of the restrictor plates. Make a STOCK car weigh the same as it’s commercial equivalent and run it wide open.
3. Run with the wife in the passenger seat and three kids in the back. That way we wouldn’t hear drivers whining about the car…they’d be screaming about little Joey needing another pit stop with 10 to go!!! OK, that one ain’t gonna happen, but it would be interesting.
4. Put a fast-food drive-thru on pit row. Require at least one stop each race, and allow as many stops as the driver wants. Also known as the Depends rule
5. Open up for more customization by the team. Who cares who the manufacturer is if everyone runs the same setup?
Some of these suggestions are for real, and they all have to do with getting back to the roots of NASCAR. Stock Car Racing. Drive the same damn car I drive…or something remotely like it. It’s become something entirely different. I appreciate the safety improvements, but make it more than something that just looks like a car I can buy off a lot.
Has anyone ever suggested changing the point model for the chase so that it makes it closer competition? One simple change is award points to the 12 contenders so that they get points awarded as though it were a 12 person race. Sort of a Race within a race. Everything else remains the same, but the worst anyone can finish is twelfth. This would truly be a race within a race! This should make the points race much closer.
how about this… add 2 more races to total 38….but only include results for 36 races…..go or go home cars who consistantly show up each week would automatically qualify like the top 35 does today as long as they don’t have 36 race results…the other cars (ie top 35) can attempt to qualify based on speed only…..and they would be able to throw out results from 2 other races….the fun in this would be it would force those in the top 35 that wish to substitute these 2 races to qualify…if they wreck in qualifying they might not get any points and lose the points from the races they substitute….put these 2 races as the races right before the chase…talk about suspense…by the way it also helps to add maybe Kentucky and Nashville to the list resolving that problem