June 3rd, 2009 
Journo *DISCLAIMER: We ask you beforehand to fully read the post before responding. We encourage good discussion and well thought out opinions. What we are not going to put up with is name calling and personal attacks. If we see any of that happening we will delete the comment.*
On Tuesday the National Stock Car Racing Commission, NASCAR’s version of an appellate court, upheld most of the penalties against driver Carl Long.
In their ruling the Commission upheld the 12-race suspension, but only to the Cup Series garage, the $200,000 fine of crew chief Charles Swing and loss of owner and driver points. The Commission said if Swing is unable to pay the fine it may not fall to Long.
From the start of this thing, I can honestly say I have had very little pity for Carl Long. The minute he entered his car into the race a few weeks ago he agreed to abide by NASCAR’s rules. These rules are spelled out very clearly, in a very detailed rule book that Carl Long has.
He knew the expectations and he knew the consequences and he did not follow them either by accident or on purpose (I’m not going to try to determine intent and NASCAR shouldn’t have to either). He is now paying the price.
What was Carl Long’s response to this? It wasn’t the maturity you would expect of a 41-year-old. No, we got name calling, off the wall accusations, an inability to take responsibility and conspiracy theories. I never much thought about Carl Long before this, but I now have very little respect for the man.
He has tried to place blame on respected engine builder Ernie Elliott. Let me remind you this was a motor Elliott bought used from Chip Ganassi Racing, and then sold to Long not last month, but in January. The last time I checked if I buy a used car and something goes wrong five months later I don’t blame the car dealer that sold me the car. Ernie Elliott has no responsibility for that motor once it is sold, much like that car dealer. Who knows who has been working on that motor, or what has been done with that motor since it was sold to Long FIVE MONTHS ago.
Ernie Elliott has zero responsibility in this situation. And I am disgusted that Carl Long would trash this man the way he has. Ernie Elliott has built engines for years and has never had an issue like this. We certainly never saw this problem arise when he was building motors for Ganassi; and I assure you plenty of Ganassi’s motors were inspected.
Elliott was not the only person he trashed though. He referred to John Capels, Jack Housby and George Silbermann, all very respected businessmen in their own right, as “big bullies.”
He then went to on to attack both Brian France and Mike Helton. I know these are controversial men among many ardent fans, but they don’t deserve to have their integrity questioned.
And then he went on to attack the business as a whole, one which as far as I can tell has earned him a very good living. I saw in one article he estimated he was making about $100,000 a year. Now this isn’t to say he hasn’t earned that, but that is good money that not too many people in this country make. Especially to go racing every weekend.
Long and many others have argued that he can now no longer make a living doing what he knows. This is a farce. He works for a team that not only sometimes has two Cup Series teams but also a Nationwide team (remember he is not suspended from the Nationwide garage). He also doesn’t have to travel to the track for those weeks he is on suspension. Does this mean his present role with Front Row Motorsports is going to have to change for a little while? Definitely. But does it mean he can’t earn a living? Absolutely not.
At the end of the day the only reason this has become the issue that it has become is because Long can’t afford to pay the penalty. In instances where other teams have been issued large or aggressive penalties for things like jet-fuel additives in the fuel system (Micheal Waltrip Racing), or magnets behind the gas pedal (Joe Gibbs Racing) (among other incidents) we saw a lot people, a lot of fans calling these teams cheaters.
This happens to a small team and it is just the evil empire trying to stick it to the small guy. I think the release from the commission said it best:
And guess what? Drivers get this. Other than to sympathize with his lack of funding, I haven’t heard a single driver disagree with NASCAR issuing a penalty (Martin Truex and Jeff Burton here). They know if this were their team, they would face just as stiff a penalty. I know this is something many people don’t believe, but it’s true, NASCAR has proved many times before they are willing to fine the big teams (Chad Knaus was ejected from Speedweeks and then suspended for six races in 2006; also refer to earlier mentioned penalties).
This was a big deal, whether Carl meant to do it or not. Every team and driver knows fuel, tires and engines are things you don’t mess with and he apparently inadvertently broke that golden rule.
He wanted to run with the big dogs on Sunday, but clearly could not handle the responsibility and consequences that can go along with that (i.e. $200,000 fines). In my opinion if Carl didn’t have the resources, for whatever reason, to make sure every part of that car was in spec he didn’t deserve to be out on that race track.
He now needs to bite the bullet and serve his penalty with integrity.
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Henry – “Would you just set there and say, well it’s just my fault for being so stupid. No,,,, you would raise H___ about it. as most anyone would.”
You’re full of speculation and guesswork Henry, not to mention attempting to make me the subject of the discussion.
But if you insist, I’d exactly what Long has done, to a point.
I would have appeal the original decision and when it was turned down gone about my business rather than whimper and cry about it.
As much as you might like to to be this isn’t a car dealer where your protected under a warranty or the so-called Lemon Laws.
This isn’t and never has been like Wal-Mart where you might be protected by some consumer protection agency – its NASCAR.
You live by their rules or you pay the price.
Marc,
I was only joking about you working for Nascar, can’t you take one lol!!! and I respect the knowledge you have gathered over the past 5 years of “bloggers”. and I agree you are really good at it.
I’ve been around for 63 years. I watched Richard Petty run at South Boston, speedyway, along with a lot of others. when it was dirt.. I live less that 2 miles from Ward Burton, and I watched he and Jeff race as kids. Now I’m watching Wards son Jeb race. I’ve seen Carl win track championships at Orange County speenway and South Boston Speedway. I don’t profess to know all the ends and out of Nascar, I’m just a fan. All I know is what it see and read. I’m sure you are much more knowledgable that I am. However, I know when someone has be done wrong, and I believe Carl has been. Even old DW in his latest news release says he thinks so. So I’m not the only person out here pissed off. Go read the other blogs and you will see there are a lot more people saying I’m right that you.
Oh yes, and BTW, Nascar engines are not üsed cars, they are speced and “papered” , even the ones used in LMS and Limited Sportman so don’t be comparing them to üsed cars.
Here’s some who agree with me. Let me know how many you can find any that agree with you.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_nascar/2009/06/david-reutimann-spearheads-carl-long-fundraising-effort.html
http://fanzonesports.net/nascar/2009/06/fans-reutimann-donate-to-pay-longs-nascar-fine/
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/lovemusicsports86/192942
http://motorsports.fanhouse.com/2009/06/02/absurd-carl-long-200k-penalty-upheld/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/191126-longs-life-sentence-how-nascar-ruined-someones-life
http://insiderracingnews.com/Writers/DD/060409.html
If these are not enough I have a few more, but I’m sure you get the idea by now
If you are going to bash someone, be careful!! If you are going to put words into my mouth, then you need to make sure you get all of the facts right. We have never called Jack and John out negatively–that is you!(journo)!! They were very genuine and good people put in a tough spot. They are not even affiliated with Nascar. We would join them for dinner anytime!! These two people are not the “bullies”. We asked them to lower the penality, and even create a rule holding engine builders responsible!!
As for EEI they are one of the best engine builders in the country, so you can see why all of us are shocked that this “big” engine came up thousandths out of spec. EEI declined to come to the appeal. Maybe you should have come since you have all the answers and you could have explained how this happened!!
As for the people worried about $100k income. Taking all winnings, sponsors and weekly pay added together, deduct tire bills plus other expenses and we are lucky to break even!! We always pay everybody we owe. Go through the garage area or to any supplier and ask them if we owe them!! We take responsibility and pay everything even when people dont pay us. There is a high percentage of teams in the infield that owe alot, spend spend spend then leave people and vendors hanging. NOT US!! We make sure we can pay everything before we go. So when NASCAR shorted us & the 83 car $21k on the posted pay it damn well hurt!! Have you noticed how they will not respond; why when they added 2 positions to the field instead of keeping the $26,9 guarentee, it became $5K?
Google–why Bill France started Nascar– to insure promoters did not promise big pay and not deliver!!
Bottom line is that the engine is wrong. We asked Nascar for lienency. Every person with anytime working in the garage has witnessed lienency. Example: ” Have this fixed before qualifing or dont bring it back to the track this way” . Other examples will never be published or admitted. This is a reason many people in the sport are trying to help. How do you take the smallest team with an infraction thousandths out of spec and give the largest fine ever???
Bill France Jr. had a great feel for the fans and teams. This penality is based on G Bodine in 1991 winston. The majority of fans hated Bodine in this period and the crowd went wild when he was parked. The garage was pleased because he was wrong!! Win Win…fans and teams!! Why is Carl the only driver to be suspended in recent history when other teams purposely cheated? Do you think the garage (regular officials and team members) would be supporting us if we were so evil!! We are being raped while the world watches and you (journo) feel we deserve it. I guess you are right we did sign the entry to put on a show for YOU. We did accept responsibility and asking the high powers for a heart is not in the book. So we are left in a position where we cant pay all we owe.
BTW as for job security do you have a clue how many unemployed people there are around Mooresville looking for work??? Guess what most of them dont have race cars and none have national headlines distracting from daily work.
Dee Dee- First of all if you read the post there was zero bashing going on. Criticism of childish behavior on the part of your husband is not bashing. I have the utmost respect for what Carl is trying to do, but he knows the rules and if he broke them he needs to take responsibility for that; not blame Ernie Elliott or trash the leadership of this sport. I think it is a little presumptive of anyone to assume they know what someone has gone through in their life to get where they are. Just because Brian France is a France doesn’t mean he hasn’t worked to get where he is at. Not to mention attacking the integrity of Mike Helton.
As far as him calling the Commission “bullies,” I am looking at quotes from him. I know the Commission was sympathetic to him so if he was trying to refer to someone as bullies he needed to clarify that. Those are all very good men.
As far as blaming Ernie Elliott I ask you how can you blame someone for something they sold you five months ago? As I have said several times throughout the post and the comment section can you really blame someone for something they sold you five months ago? Ernie has had no oversight or control over that motor for five months. Not to say anything has been purposely done to it, but if something happened to it as a result of overheating or some other issue, you can’t blame that on Ernie. He is a very respected engine builder and member of the community and I find it hard to reconcile the attacks that have been leveled against him. Have you considered the damage that has been done to his reputation as a result of your accusations? From what I can see you haven’t.
As far as the job situation goes, I know Carl is a hard worker and I doubt Front Row would let him go. I don’t think you need to use that to build sympathy for your case. And you don’t need to tell me about the people who are out of work around here. I know many of them.
The amount of the penalty is high. There is no doubting that. But you can’t lower the penalty for this situation because every team will expect the same treatment. If this happens to Rick Hendrick or Roger Penske they can say well we had a bad quarter at the dealerships and we can’t afford it either. It is not fair to you and it is not fair to them. As we have seen in the last couple of seasons NASCAR has been ramping up penalties. There have been a lot of big teams that have been fined a lot of money. I don’t think can anybody can reasonably afford a $200,000 penalty. What happened with Carl really sucks, but a rule was broken, apparently inadvertently and he needs to be penalized.
I never said I thought Carl deserved to be penalized the amount he was. I think it is a lot and I know you are working class people. But the fact of the matter is, what is done is done.
Ultimately my biggest issue was the way Carl reacted to things (as the post very clearly points out). That is when I lost any and all sympathy for him. I know he is upset and I know he is passionate, but he needed to consider the damage he was doing to other’s reputations. Take responsibility for what happened, move on and deal with the ramifications.
After reading a post by “Sue R”, I just wanted to clarify some things for you and everyone else that might think the same way you do. We purchased the engine from the engine BUILDER. “If you change the motor, you should have receipts”….absolutely!! How can you have receipts for things that you dont buy?! We run a small business as well (Carl Long Racing). We know all about paperwork.
I am having a hard time understanding how some of you could possibly think this is something that was done intentional!! Dont you think that if we were going to cheat we would do it so that we would gain something from it?!?! Nothing was gained from .17 ci.
When the engine blew in practice we had to change it out with a back-up engine for the race. The rules of Nascar are that when you change engines, you have to submit the one that blew to nascar for a tear down. We had the option to just load up and go home!! Seriously, would we have submitted this engine, if we thought it was too big?!?! HELL NO!! We would have loaded up and took the last place winnings!!!
Dee Dee- We never said Carl did this intentionally. We don’t think he did. I know neither of you are stupid. I also though don’t think NASCAR should have to prove intent. They are a sanctioning body, not a court of law. No other sport proves intent before issuing penalties; how many times have you heard an athlete accused of taking steroids or a banned supplement say he didn’t mean to use it? It is a very difficult thing to prove outside of a court room; it’s difficult inside a court room.
Journo: You tell me how you buy a motor that is “legal” in Feb. and not “legal” in May when it has the same pistons, crank, etc.. that it had at Daytona. Are you trying to say that because it sat in the race shop for a couple of months that it grew like a chia pet? I really wish you could help us explain it to Nascar. We have another appeal coming up. Would you care to go explain it for us?
We trusted Ernie Elliott provided us a legal engine. We knew it wasnt gonna be the most powerful! Ernie explained it grew with heat. Nascar says it didnt. We have to except Nascars decision no matter what. All we asked for is lienency but none exist for us!
How would you feel if you were in our shoes? Ernie and Bill are Carls heros! We all know Ernie knows how to build a motor.
Henry- As much as I appreciate you finding people who side with you, I think it is irrelevant. It is of little consequence to me what others think. This is my opinion and if others don’t agree with it, I certainly can’t fault them for that.
(Sorry, this was in the spam bin)
Dee Dee- I am unfortunately not an expert engine builder. But the motor has been run a couple of times and from what I understand it has also been worked on. You can not without a reasonable doubt say the motor was like this when you bought it, therefore you can not blame the person you bought it from. If you had evidence when you bought it that was oversized than that is one thing, but after five months, time on track and other people working on it, it is no longer Ernie’s fault.
I obviously have no idea what you are feeling like right now but I have the utmost sympathy for you. This is without a doubt a very bad situation. I hope for your sake and for the sake of Mr Swing, Charles Strang does give you that leniency that you need.
And I want to thank you for not coming in here with guns blazing. I appreciate being able to calmly explain my point and hear your side of things. I think you and Carl are good people, I am just disappointed with the way things were addressed.
Nascar changed the rule hours before we took the green flag about the purse. So they can change the rules at their “discretion” but when it comes to our situation all we hear is “rules are rules”. Everyone says when we entered the race we took responsibility….well the entry form that we filled out also said we were gaurenteed 26,000 and Nascar did not take responsibility. We would have never went had we known that we could not pay for our expenses.
Carl went into the appeal board fighting that they change the rule making engine builders responsible to protect all other teams and drivers in the sport that have to rely on an outside source. Example: Ryan Newman and Smoke!!
We never called Ernie by name until the media called him out. We could not tell a lie and we are not crafty enough to tell them alot of stuff and still not answer the question.
we did change the cam to go from plate to open motor, the heads never came off. We offered the work to EEI with their employees at the ganassi building. They declined. It only had 175 miles on it and there are good 5-600.
Wow! Journo, I’d like a customer like you. 5 months go by and you don’t expect even the most major of purchases to hold together? I wasn’t at all surprised that Mr. Long didn’t have either $200,000 or the ability to measure engine parts down to 0.17. Call me crazy but I like to see a couple of underdogs out on the track. I guess Nascar does not.
Not only did Mr.. Elliot show no interest in the quality of the piece he sold, he also accused the Long team of boring out the engine. Why should Mr. Long stay silent in the face of such accusations?
4 years ago my neighbour bought a harp for his daughter at exactly one month after the warranty it developped a crack. My neighbour wrote the harp company and apologized for contacting them outside the warranty period, but asked them if they had any advice or if a repair kit were available for purchase. The harp company sent someone out the next day to pick up the harp, and replace it with a new one. They apologized up and down and advised them that while the stated warranty was only 4 years they expected their harps to last over a hundred years. They took the harp back and disected and called all other customers who had the same wood lot. If only Ernie Elliot took the same pride in his sales…
Nascar should let Dale jr take performance enhancing drugs.
i have an idea when jeremy mayfield wipes nascar and heltons face in da mudd when he wins his case, he can pay carl’s fine, that would really stick it to nascar..hehehe
This has gotten really interesting. As far as the videos, I am talking about the ones with the old drevers sitting around talking about racing in their time. They all mention throwing a caution for the sake of the show. I don’t have a problem with it, I accepted that a long time ago. I have seen enough evidence for me, I you don’t think they do that well, ok. As far as Harvick, our definitions of a top line driver are different. This whole deal points out where NASCAR has gone. It used to be two competitions at the track. One on the track and one in the garage. It was the mechanic’s job to figure things out to beat the other guy. If you got caught, fine, they took your stuff and put it out on a table for everyone to see, maybe gave you a fine, and everyone went on there way. Racers and real racing fans understood this a part of the sport. Probably two of the most revered men in racing history were Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick. When NASCAR became a fad and all of the new fans came over from the stick and ball sports they had no idea about that side of the sport, journalist either. NASCAR is a business so they are catering to the most money, which is all of the new money, can’t blame them there, but that is part of what is running the old fans away. I spent more years on the mechanical side than driving so I was always amazed by what people could come up with “cheating” or creative interpretation of the rules. Carl is being used as an example, pure and simple. To some fans it is an example of how NASCAR is not going to stand for any cheating, zero tolerance, etc and that is fine. To me it is an example of NASCAR
Hit the wrong button. To me it is an example of NASCAR moving farther away from what got them where they are. It is there game so they can do what they want. But for someone who has spent 95% of there life around racing it pi$$es you off.
I have to agree the fine was excessive and I also agree NASCAR has shown incongruity with the penalties. I also agree with those who have said NASCAR is not a court of Law and should not have to determine intent. Did Carl secretly plot to win the million dollars by having an engine that was slightly more than one tenth of an inch out fo spec. I doubt it. Should he have insured he was in spec. I believe in the concept of due diligence. I have also met Carl Long some years back, and while the statement may be true that ” I saw in one article he estimated he was making about $100,000 a year” Well here is where the rubber meets the road. A functional Sprint Cup vehicle is 200K baseline to build. Many of you have stated that you barely remember Carl or hardly see him. Well when you do most of the time its a bare car. No offense to Carl, but go back about 7 years ago, when NASACAR was barely fielding 43 cars, guys like Carl would come in run a lap in a race and park and carry home enough money to pay the crew, tire and fuel costs and travel. It takes alot of money to run a car. Now that being said, let me also remind you all my friends, that the fines are held until the end of the season. If the person fined stays out of trouble, then that money comes back to them. Lets put that aside for the moment. We have mentioned Robby Gordon and the fine he received for a part that was incorrectly marked. Although I am not a fan of Robby Gordon, I also felt his team had done due dilligence. The part was marked correctly, why am I being punished at 150K. I find that penalty harsh considering in 2007 at the first race in Canada, Robby BLATANTLY IGNORED being black flagged in the last lap of the race because he refused to move to the spot NASCAR placed him at, then when the race restarted immediately wrecked the leader, and went on. Robby’s penalty. He was sat out ONE race. Lets look at that again. On one hand Robby receives a part from the manufacturer that was incorrectly identified and was ultimately fined 150K. On the other hand, Robby blantantly gives the finger to NASCAR, ignores a direct order from Mike Helton to park his car, wrecks a race leader and gets sat out of one race, NO FINE. So you may all say what you will, but yes there is a HUGE disparity in how teams are punished. Carl Edwards and the 99 were fined, as has been mentioned for the oil pan cover. Remember also they were fined at the 2007 Dover race(which they had won) for the car being too low. Now NASCAR adn about 60 million people saw the 99 take a hard lick from behind, but thanks to his crew and Carl’s talent, they still managed to win with a damaged car. BUT WAIT NASCAR takes away the victory and fine the team for the car being more than a half inch too low? WTF did you NOT see his car hit? That being the case, NASCAR should inspect 30 cars after Talledega. You can make millions in fines from that race! Daytona? All but 5 or 6 car teams will fail that inspection. Ok yes I am becoming facitious here. The truth is Nascar could have inspected Carl’s car and said, Carl, man we are sorry but you fail inspection and here is why. We have to disqualify you. That is punishment enough for any team owner. Especially when you are a small operation. Put it all together and drive out to somewhere only to be turned down and sent home before even qualifying. I myself have watch several times where hefty penalties are levied one week, then next week everyone is sternly warned and then released. All in all in the final analysis, Carl Long broke a rule. There is no denying that. Does he deserve punsihment? Taking the “intent” argument out, yes he does. Does NASCAR have a Rule book? Yes. Does it have a list of punishments for those rules? No. It is at the whim of who is at the hearing at the time and if they have a wild hair that day or not. Is it fair? Everyone will have a different answer. Since NASCAR is a privately owned and operated company they can set the rules as they see fit. We as fans and customers can only show our displeasure simply by not attending these events and by politely expressing our thoughts on the business. WE are the customer and without us, thereis no NASCAR. Journo, I appreciate you writing this article, on what happened to Carl. However your article is a putrid example of yellow journalism, in its bashing a man who expressed how he felt. Allow me to remind you my friend that many of the drivers when fined or chastised for their behavior had less than untoward things to say about NASCARs ruling. A few hours ago Tony Stewart won his first race as driver owner. Tony is extremely vocal about his feelings on certain issues and was at times quiet beligerent about those feelings. Yet this same man whom you may or may not condem for his feelings, handed over a million dollars to Kyle Petty’s Victory Junction Gang. A real bastard isnt he? Perhaps you should consider tempering your words, with a little more eloquence before you put them to paper so to speak.
Henry – Well, I doubt you will come back to this thread but if you do this needs addressing – “Oh yes, and BTW, Nascar engines are not üsed cars, they are speced and “papered” , even the ones used in LMS and Limited Sportman so don’t be comparing them to üsed cars.”
Did I make a comparison?
Far from it in fact what was said is the direct opposite. “As much as you might like to to be this isn’t a car dealer where your protected under a warranty or the so-called Lemon Laws.”
So henry… where’s your so-called comparison?
P.S. What I’m supposed to be impressed by others that your link to and agree with you?
Everyone has an opinion, and has a right to that opinion. What they don’t have a right to do is make-up stuff from whole cloth as you have done on occasion – i.e. Long “unknowingly (most likely) used an incorrect engine” and ““They just wanted Carl gone” – you have ZERO ability to know either statement is fact.
As for your “history in the sport, so…. My first attendance at a NASCAR event was the ’64 Daytona 500, and remember well the early days of Benny Parsons and teammate Danny Byrd running #’s 08 and 09 1959 Edsels at the now defunct Mt. Clemons race track in Michigan.
What does that mean? Nothing, not anything more than yours both historys are unrelated to todays issue.
Dee Dee – I have one question for you.
You’ve stated a lot of teams and drivers have given support during the current controversy, and I have little doubt many have.
But, I’ve been taught actions speak louder than words and frankly other than B. Vickers donating 5K and with only $11,918.75 showing on your “tote-board” as I write this I fail to see much action.
That said, if in fact Carl went into the appeals board with the idea of a rule change that places some amount responsibility on an engine builder vice his customer three cheers for him and you.
Rod: We’ve pretty much addressed everything you commented on in our previous comments, so I’m not going to bother with that. But I did want to know where the Tony Stewart line comes in? We never said a word about Tony in this post or any other. We’ve certainly never “condemned” him for anything. Talk about going off on a tangent…
My $0.05 (adjusted for inflation) about penalty discrepencies and “enhancing the show” comments: Every sport does it. Every ref/ump makes judgment calls. And as far as trying to make the show more enjoyable for fans, what about changing strike zones or juicing the ball for more HRs in baseball?
Marc ~ Is there another site besides Carl-Long.com that has on-going donations? Carl-Long.com has a $5k donation from David Reutimann, but I find nothing from Vickers. The Carl-Long.com site is up to $13,205.48. If there is another site (where the Vickers $5K donation is) that is up to $11,918.75, that puts him to just over $25k raised.
About fines… up until a couple of years ago the money went toward the winnings that they passed out at they end of the year banquet, did they not? Don’t they put all the fine money to Nascar Charities now? Will someone please clarify that for me? Not that I feel the amount of the fine is justified, IMHO I DO NOT, but I also do not think Nascar “pockets” (as implied and even our right stated on some sites) fine money.
To most of the posters here ~ I do not post often at discussion sites as so many are just name calling rants, but I found most comments here to be well thought out and for the most part an intelligent debate. Bravo!
Amber: Yes NASCAR does now give all the money collected from fines to the NASCAR Foundation.
Just and odd theory here. After reading DeeDee’s posts this kind of popped into my mind. When they were at the race track and after they have paid all of their entry fees NASCAR decides to change the guaranteed money and short them $21,000 from what was on the entry form. I can imagine there was some virulent complaining done towards NASCAR. Now with all of the media and outside people in the garage for the all-star event maybe NASCAR was embarrassed. With it being NASCAR’s game, what better way to prove that point than to drop the hammer on them for some bs rule violation. If that is the amount he was over then it is bs, like someone posted earlier, that amount can be changed by how many decimals you use for pi. Where is the engine now? If you have to have a drug test verified by a second party why not the engine? NASCAR takes it, calls it illegal and it is probably at the bottom of Lake Norman. Just throwing that one out there. As for Robin Miller in one of my earlier posts, I know he is a blowhard who hates NASCAR with a passion but usually if you filter out all of his biased adjectives the facts are pretty close.
TC, do you wear lipstick or vaseline when you kiss NASCAR’s a**? You seem to think Robbie Gordon not knowing about his bumper is okay, and Carl Long not knowing about his over-sized engine is not. To me the same logic applies to Robbie Gordon. He bought the bumper so he should have know, and checked it out also…..Although, I don’t believe either guy could have known, and there is NO WAY Nascar would apply the same penalty to the big names in Nascar, so YES they are picking on the little guy. Your disclaimer at the top says to leave comments that spark debate, but obvious are narrow minded and stupid.
P.H.: So I’m not allowed to agree with a decision made by NASCAR? Does that mean you are a NASCAR hater because you disagree? Or, does that mean you are kissing Carl Long’s ass because you agree with him? I don’t kiss NASCAR’s ass, drink their kool aid, or anything else. If you look through the comments I showed plenty of cases where we’ve disagreed with them.
I never said I thought Robby Gordon not knowing about his bumper was okay. What I did say was that he got penalized, and there was absolutely no way for him to know the part was illegal, because it came from the manufacturer and had the same part number. Good try though.
And there is no proof that NASCAR penalizes the little guys more then the big guys, and there is no proof that NASCAR wants Carl or the little guys out, so your argument holds no water. Throughout this whole debate, people keep saying that, and yet not one person has offered a single shred of real evidence that proves that.
And I don’t know what you are trying to say with your last sentence, as you left out a few words and it makes no sense…
Amber – The Vickers donation was very publicly announced on several MSM outlets, do a search you will probably come up with a source. I would think the amount posted at Carl’s site includes the Vickers donation but you would have to contact him for verification.
In answer to your other query, yes all NASCAR fines are now given to charity as of the 2008 season.
KR – “I can imagine there was some virulent complaining done towards NASCAR. Now with all of the media and outside people in the garage for the all-star event maybe NASCAR was embarrassed.
And with all the media attention one would think Dee Dee’s accusation would have been noted and published by someone, somewhere, to my knowledge it hasn’t been.
That’s not to say she’s not being truthful just that her being so close to the situation and the only source of the accusation it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
P.H – “TC, do you wear lipstick or vaseline when you kiss NASCAR’s a**? You seem to think Robbie Gordon not knowing about his bumper is okay, and Carl Long not knowing about his over-sized engine is not.”
“Nice” repartee you have there P.H., it’s pretty obvious with a thread this long someone would start flinging poo around.
Congrats… you win the bobby prize as the first such example.
I remember Larry Mac talking about an incident when he complained about something NASCAR did you him when he was a crew chief. Bill Jr. himself asked him if he enjoyed living in his big house on the lake he got from working in NASCAR. Larry said he took that as “If you want to keep that big house you need to shut up”, same type situation.
KR, your anecdote means exactly what?
Actually nothing, but nice try defending something you can’t possibly know as fact.
marc-Never said it was fact just a theory. The story means NASCAR will always remind you who’s game it is and have done it in the past to some very high profile people. Some have learned the lesson quickly some have not and have to be reminded. Just had a thought that maybe that is what this whole deal was about and honestly I would be more comfortable with it if it was the case.