I have been thinking this week a lot about ways to improve NASCAR. I’m sure you have too.
This is something NASCAR is also doing as their avid fans soften and their casual fans are starting to walk away (in research NASCAR classifies fans as avid or casual).
I don’t have any solutions but after really putting some thought into this I have come up with one good reason (among many) why those avid fans are softening on the sport. Let me wait to address that though.
Lets look at some of the reasons why the casual fans are walking away. First and most obvious is that they believe the racing is not as good as it once was. Many have said the COT has degraded the quality of the sport; and I think that is probably true on the mile and a half tracks.
The second reason is the length of races. This I can understand. Four plus hours of anything is a lot. When it’s cars going around in circles at California, that is definitely true. I hate to say this but even I find myself zoning out at certain tracks.
Finally the casual fan doesn’t have enough personality on track. Sure you’ve got Kyle Busch, but what else is out there? You can only have so many nice guys. Certainly the story lines have been a little better this year (a couple of first time winners, Mark Martin, Stewart Haas etc.) but they could always be better.
To the avid fans I think a lot of the issues above are starting to get to them, but from what I have read and heard around here and elsewhere, the politics of this sport are driving people nuts.
Personally I like the politics. It makes me more interested in the sport (thats a large part of the reason I write this blog). But there are times when it can become too consuming. I think that is the problem for a lot of avid fans.
NASCAR has often had this too open in some areas, and not open enough in other areas way of doing things. And I think that has hurt them. You announce a driver is getting penalties for x and z rule violations but fans don’t have a way of even knowing what that is. They then become hostile to the sanctioning body.
At this point I ask, why not release the rule book? Every other major sport does it. I think it is time NASCAR does too. This would placate some of the conspiracy theorists and would give every fan a chance to reference the rule being broken in an actual physical book.
I think part of this environment too is the massive amount of NASCAR coverage coming at you from every angle. The sport really hasn’t changed much as far as governance goes (I think you could even make an argument that they are more open now; and NASCAR certainly wasn’t any more fair in the past), but the media coverage has. You can spend most of the day from Thursday to Sunday watching NASCAR coverage and opinion in one form or another and then you can get on-line and spend the rest of the week reading about it. It only works to amplify stupid things NASCAR does.
I also think we know way too much on other sides of the sport. Why do I need a press release talking about personnel changes. I think Chip Ganassi made a good point earlier this year when talking about layoffs at the team last year. They certainly weren’t the first of their kind to do that, but they were the ones that got vilified. It matters for us that the team was shut down, but why do we need to know through main stream media channels they laid people off? It’s irrelevant to the sport (I know you’re thinking I am a hypocrite by this point and I probably am).
At the end of the day, because there are so many moving parts to this sport it is going to be political. I honestly believe though that stuff can kill the fun for fans and I don’t blame them. We use sports to get away from things and when it begins to look more like our real life it begins to be less entertaining.
I enjoy this stuff because I like the business (again why we write the blog). But on the other side of that I also love racing. Something I think we need to do sometimes is separate those two things and really get back to the basics. I think that needs to be NASCAR’s mantra moving forward.
On a completely unrelated topic, why is Kyle Petty talking about Jon and Kate Plus 8 on NASCAR.com? It’s good to see he is staying on topic.
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on May 28th, 2009 at 2:43 am
Journo,
I agree with you on all points.
Most of all, four hours is too long. When you add in rain delays, NASCAR is asking its fans to commit an entire Sunday. No other sport demands that big a commitment. Sure, the NFL has 3 games on Sunday, but you can choose to watch what you want. If you want to see a NASCAR race in its entirety, you must endure at least 4 hours, not to mention the post-race coverage on Speed.
West Coast Kenny
Alameda, California
on May 28th, 2009 at 3:03 am
As in most things some people believe to be true, there’s a grain of truth behind how and what they believe.
Take the CoT. Journo you say it has made things worse on one and a half tracks, but is that true?
Maybe, but I suggest we hear just as many complaints from NNS drivers about “aero-push,” and having the “air taken off” while running side-by-side as we do from Cup drivers. And not to put to fine a point on it but the very same complaints were heard by Cup drivers in pre-CoT days.
So what’s the truth? I don’t see any way to quantify it, the perception is out there and sadly many rely on that rather than available cold hard facts.
Length of races? Well D’OH what’s changed? Not NASCAR or the races, I tend to think society is as much to blame as anything. People want what they want NOW, they say patience is a virtue, not to NASCAR Nation, not any longer. Need proof, check race times 20 or 25 years ago, they on average were longer because of slower laps time in general. So what’s changed, not much I think but the perception has. Adding to that perception are the TV ads that everyone thinks have increased but is nothing but a myth.
Politics? I got two word for ya: Formula One.
Be careful of what you wish for, that sport is in utter chaos because of too many iron fists not a single one as NASCAR operated under.
Under the heading of transparency is what I generally call The Mythical Rulebook. I’ve been an advocate of releasing it to the general public for a long time. Other than NASCAR trying to squeeze more drop of cash by mandating you apply for a hardcard/license to get your grubby hands on one there is no valid reason to keep it “hidden.”
Also under transparency is the entire bruhaha over release of Jeremy Mayfield’s drug test results.
Heard anyone wanting to know what Andrew Crnkovic popped positive for?
Nah… I didn’t think so.
Tony Martin, Ben Williams, Paul Chodora, don’t hear calls for those drugs to be named either. Where’s the outrage I ask.
And finally, on your point about industry layoffs.
BIG NEWS weren’t they? As they should be.
However, it is a well know fact during the 2007 season all the teams hired extra people to cope with NASCAR’s idiotic idea to run the then current car and the CoT simultaneously.
Just how many of the announced layoffs were people that were “extra hires?” We don’t have a friggin’ clue because the beat reporters and other MSM reporters never reported on it.
Every person laid off is an important part of the story and I don’t mean to lessen impact of someone losing a job but feel fairly certain in saying the layoff numbers put out by Chip Ganassi were higher as a result although Chip would have been excoriated regardless.
on May 28th, 2009 at 5:20 am
Had no idea Nascar really HAD a rule book.
It’s been my thought [and maybe others also] that Nascar had a BIG Dry Erase board in what used to be The Big Red truck so they could change the rules as they see fit while the race was being run.
I’ve even seen one instance where a rule WAS changed during an actual race.
So it would seem that having a rules book the public could buy would cause more problems then it would fix since it wouldn’t make clear how they decide how they come up with some of their oddball rulings.
But if you Drag Race you can walk into any speed shop and buy a NHRA rule book that covers all classes from top to bottom.
Jim @ Home.
on May 28th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Politics a problem? Sure, but CART taught us a group of greedy owners cannot work together. Tony George is teaching us a greedy single owner doesn’t work either. I’m not crazy about NASCAR hierarchy, but let’s remember the France’s (rip Big Bill) did provide the playing field.
Race length a problem? You bet….especially in today’s market. Solution (said it before) is 2 heats and a final. 3 starts and 3 finishes. I know traditionalists hate that idea.
COT a problem? You bet. They just look BIG and stupid. But I do applaud “some” of the integrated innovations. Personally (this is where you’ll stone me) I think they are too safe. A bit videogamesque.
IMHO the issue is staying ahead of the curve and adjusting to gain balance between sport vs entertainment. Occasionally, when the stars are aligned and a race provides their fusion it is a thing of beauty. Often though, you get only one or the other, but not both. Take two tracks for example. Bristol was always a great short track tradition. Concrete it and drivers like it, the bump and run disappears and fans are bored now. Talladega OTOH drivers hate it for the plates and fans love it for the last lap.
Lastly, I hope in NASCAR town hall mtg this week more time was spent discussing how to better achieve that balance between sport vs entertainment, and less on penalties and drugs.
on May 28th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Journo, I would not worry about being labeled a hypocrite. As Nascar fans ALL of us are. It’s the nature of the sport. If my favorite driver spins someone to gain position I cheer, If my favorite driver gets spun I am ticked off.
Politics are getting in the way, I agree with you there. It’s so much more though. I miss the days when the races started at 12:00 eastern time, the pre-race was about 1/2 hour of intelligent observations and news of what took place over the last week.
This practice of slapping a sponsor on everything is making me insane watching the races.
The Claritin clear to drive restart (which by the way YOU CANNOT TAKE IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE)
The ASK.com questions where you are expected to go to the website to get the answers.
The list goes on and on. I understand making money is important but is it really necessary to slap a sponsor label on every damn thing? I’m sure we are not far away from “DW’s bowel movement brought to you by ex-lax”. It’s gonna happen, I promise.
I want to go to a race just so I can pop digger with my .22
I will never again watch the July Daytona race as long at TNT keeps what they call “wide open coverage” It’s a 4 hour commercial with a little bit of racing thrown in. I swear not 20 seconds went by last year without Bill Weber saying this was brought to you by Domino’s, or pennzoil, or some other crap. You could not even hear the damn race!!!!
I’m sure this new way of broadcasting the races is gaining a lot of young fans, but it’s at the expense of the old guys like me, who are tired of all the crap and just want to see the race. Buddy Baker where are you when we need you the most?
on May 28th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I’m curious about how other sports are doing ratings/share-wise compared to last year. May sweeps showed viewership down across the board. It may not just be a “NASCAR is boring” trend but a “people are just watching less TV period” trend.
Journo, call Nielsen up and get us some stats!
on May 28th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Looks like many different aspects have been covered for the NASCAR exit people. Mine (sometimes) concerns the TV coverage and the length of races. They seem longer because of the lack of wrecks and racecar failures, consequently making the racing seem more boring (longer) than yrs. ago. Of course I don’t want wrecks, but NASCAR needs to roll with the punches and evaluate what is taking place at their events now and 15 yrs. ago.
I also remember Bob Jenkins, and what a fine pro he was doing his job. Unfortunatly I cannot see the same quality of announcers. Some of them are just plain awful, and some are barely acceptable. And a few are ok, but it seems to make a difference how big my commitment to watching is. Not NASCAR’S fault, but certainly a consideration these days…
on May 28th, 2009 at 10:27 am
First, I believe that NASCAR needs to LET Dale Sr. die. I realize the impact by him on this sport, but the constant reference to him is nothing less than morbid. It is time for NASCAR to move on!
Second, allowing Toyota into the series has not been the boost that NASCAR hoped for. In fact, I will argue it has just done the opposite. The Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge fan does NOT want their favorite driver in a “foreign” car, and I am not sure that Toyota will ever have engender the same loyalty.
Third, the cars need to be “stock cars”. Are there any pushrod engines in any American brand car? Is the Fusion, or the Impala, rear wheel drive? Is there a two door Charger? Spec racing is for amateurs (and mighty fun I might add).
If the car manufacturers are (or want to be) involved in professional racing, innovation needs to be promoted. What about miles per gallon, is there any team working on major improvements? What about getting more horsepower from small displacement engines? NASCAR should promote itself as a way to advance automotive technology. Remember how upset NASCAR was at the 8 cylinder SOHC that Ford tried to introduce years ago? Or the Hemi? Or, what happened to the 500 rule for manufacturers?
on May 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am
” the massive amount of NASCAR coverage coming at you from every angle.”
I chose this to comment on since no-one else has. You may be right in the Carolinas or the South in general, but in my part of the world (Ontario) the only way to find more than the name if the race winner is to go looking for it. I suspect that is also true in may parts of the States. What this means is that coverage is very uneven: some are over-saturated and others are basically unserved. Perhaps some evening out is required and, of course, the more exciting the races the greater chance of getting good coverage.
on May 28th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Guys, In a world where people will pay real money to see two grown men beat the S**T out of each other in a cage, then “just” watching cars going around in a circle for 4 hours is never going to make it!
Why is Daytona and Talladega so popular? Anything to do with waiting for the “big-one”?
I cant for the life of me understand why a driver will willingly get in a car and race at 200 mph inches away from 42 other cars knowing that the big one is going to happen and that the odd’s are that they will be in it!It cant be the money, can it?
This is not sustainable.
on May 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
A few words on comments already made, Ross, you’re very perceptive to note TV watching seems to be a much larger problem than NASCAR.
A couple examples, the NBA had a high rating of 18.7 in 1998, but have averaged far less since and in the last 4 years with numbers dropping into single digits. MLB’s WS final and deciding game dropped from a 23.5 rating in 2001 to 9.6 last year.
Hell, even American Idol’s last show a couple nights ago saw a significant drop in TV viewership. There’s something more going on, it’s not just NASCAR when you look at the wider picture.
Stanley Byrd the obvious question to you is how far back do you wanna go to realize the “dream” of NASCAR racing “stock cars” again?
A stock car, in the original sense of the term, describes a race car that has not been modified from its original factory configuration.
But when was that? Certainly in the fifties as drivers drove cars off showroom floors, raced in T-Shirts and returned the race cars, in some cases under cover of darkness to hide the damage, to the dealer they originated from.
During the sixties the car looked stock, but were they really? Could John Q. Public walk into a Ford dealership and purchase a ‘63 “sport-roof” edition Galaxie, or a “Max Wedge” 426 in their favorite Belvedere model?
Not hardly, a production run of only 500 was required to meet NASCAR’s homologation rules.
The limit was increased for the 1964 season and “stock” then meant 1000 lucky buyers could get their hands on 426 Hemi’s, SOHC Fords, Dodge Daytona’s, Plymouth Superbirds and Ford Torino “Talladegas” in the late sixties and early seventies.
By the late sixties, even given the loose definition of “stock” the homologation rules provided, a comparison of a race Torino Talladega and one on the showroom floor for John Q. Public was anything but stock. David Pearson’s 1969 Torino Talladega had little in common with “Mr. Public’s” version.
If “tradition” means a customary or characteristic method or manner – I.E. “The winner took a victory lap in the usual track tradition.” – then NASCAR left the “stock car tradition” over forty years ago.
on May 28th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
All I am asking for is that if the vehicle “approved” by NASCAR is a six cylinder, fwd vehicle, then it must be raced that way…if it is a four door car…then it must be raced that way..NASCAR has stymied (in the name of cost curtailment) any and all initiative when it comes to “real” world vehicles. The only true advancement that anyone can credit NASCAR is the aerodynamics and safety of cars. Again, let the teams experiment (within rules) with the internal combustion engine…where is the diesel technology (see Audi and LeMans)..at least the Torino Talledega I bought in 1969 was a V8 and had two doors and was rear wheel drive….and looked like a Pearson car..a V8 rear wheel drive Camry….there is nothing at a Toyota dealer that resembles this car at all…
on May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
One other Nielsen ratings related comment: I suspect that a lot of NASCAR viewers DVR the race to watch later — and these viewers aren’t counted in most markets. If I’m not mistaken, Nielsen can only record DVR playback in markets where they’ve installed Local People Meters (LPMs) and that’s only in about 20 (of 210) markets now.
If the trend to DVR the race is up, NASCAR’s ratings will go down until Nielsen gets the LPMs into all markets (and that’s a long, long way off.)
on May 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Tony – “Guys, In a world where people will pay real money to see two grown men beat the S**T out of each other in a cage, then “just” watching cars going around in a circle for 4 hours is never going to make it!”
Well then, lets just close-up shop and call it a day then.
Of course you claiming the sport, or the current incarnation of it, is “never going to make it” is nothing but overblown rhetoric disproved by the sports long history.
That said, watching 44 grown men beat the sh*t out of each other in a game that by the clock takes 60 minutes but in reality takes 3 plus hours to complete due to ref whistle blowing and endless commercials isn’t any less “boring” than 4 hours of left turns.
And BTW, those 44 men perform on Monday til damn close to, or past, midnight many weeks.
Which raises a question, how many of you bed-wetters that complain about left coast races ending so late never utter a whisper about MNF ending at O-dark-thirty?
I bet more than a few.
on May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
When I am watching a race, I often hit the mute button to tune out the announcers. I have started listening to the radio broadcast while watching it on TV. This year, Darrel Waltrip has been more annoying than usual with his babbeling. I cringe to think that we’re fast approaching the broadcast for TNT, and they have the WORST announcers. Can’t they put the guys from the NASCAR RACEDAY on Speed to announce all of the televised races? John Roberts, Jeff Hammond and Larry McReynolds would be a good broadcasting trio. Please, please do anything to save us from Kyle Petty, Andy Peetree and the other one on TNT!
on May 28th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
See that’s why I love this site. If you pay attention you learn something new each time. I propose these Local People Meters (LPMs) that Ross spoke about be installed on every spectator at a Talladega event. Just imagine what we could learn about our ancestors.
You want stock cars? While they weren’t going to be stock, the Trac Series was to have RWD, FI OHC V-8 (or 10) and 2-doors. Too bad Cale Yarborough and company got squashed before starting.
on May 28th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Really interesting. One of the very best sites on the net.
Despite what the mainstream NASCAR media would have you believe, sports attendance and viewership is down for virtually all sports. I still love auto racing and NASCAR, but in today’s environment it doesn’t seem quite as important as it did a year ago. Friday before Mem Day weekend the AP reported that there were unsold tickets for the following Sunday’s Monaco Grand Prix, which is known as F1’s biggest race of the year, and there were noticeably fewer yachts in the harbor. I doubt the media will mention this when they report on lower ratings for the 600.
I may be somewhat biased, but I believe a big reason for the apparently lower NASCAR interest is that the old media – newspapers and newspaper refugees – almost always find some reason to criticize NASCAR. I’m not sure whether this is because they feel negative NASCAR articles sell or they are still mad about NASCAR’s slow response to Tony Stewart’s run-in with Mike Mulhern a decade or so ago. However, if the media keeps bashing NASCAR and telling their readers how bad NASCAR is, it is going to eventually run some so-called fans off. I’m not saying the media should be cheerleaders for NASCAR, just honest and even-handed rather than constantly negative. Of course the old media’s reward for being constantly negative is that more and more newspapers are dropping their NASCAR beat reporters. Last year while he was still at Yahoo Sports Bob Margolis talked to 50 or more fans in the stands at a race and wrote that the vast majority were pretty well satisfied with NASCAR races.
Oh, and Toyota, you can’t kick their a** if the only ones are in the parking lot – and now that they’ve freed up what they used to spend on F1, within 3 years Honda will be in NASCAR.
on May 28th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Ross – “I suspect that a lot of NASCAR viewers DVR the race to watch later…”
Over night TV ratings are absolute crap on a stick also.
As for LPMs controversy and lawsuits are the operative words.
on May 29th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Yeah, Marc…Charlotte is one of the markets getting LPMs next year and it’s got people around here on pins and needles.
As long as DVR use increases too, so will alternative ways of advertising. If people aren’t watching traditional commercials, they’ll show up in the show. Don’t worry! They’ve got that covered!
Lesson learned today: Don’t DVR the race. Please stay in the room and watch every ad. It’s good for racing.
on May 29th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
I think many of the comments point to part of the problem but, for my money, the real problem is that Jr. is not winning. I am not a Jr. fan but, like it or not, he’s the face of the sport. He is the Tiger Woods of NASCAR. He is the person the casual fan most associates with the sport. Can you imagine what would happen to the PGA if Tiger was finishing 38th every week instead of being at or near the top of the leader board week in and week out?
on May 29th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
The single and easiest way to create better racing on ‘Race DAY” is to ‘START PAYING Points or Money to lead laps”
Under the current system there is no incentive to lead, and passing and exchanging the lead is what makes racing better!
This would really help in the middle and early stages or a race where it is most boring!
I think let each lap count a point total up and give the winner a bonus! Then you will see a more exciting race that day, not a Chess Match!
The races are not to long, its the excitement is not long enough!
on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:19 am
I think the problem is spelled M O N O P O L Y.
Looking way back, when France crushed the efforts
to unionize the drivers. I am NOT voiceing
an opinion if that is a good idea or not.
I am ONLY saying the efforts were crushed.
France demonstrated that he was/is the King.
That power has been passed on, but the
ideaolgy is the same. NASCAR rules with
an iron fist, and humans do not react well to
this. When the people in power, abuse that power, that is when problems occur.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat.
NASCAR needs to cut the BS, and be fair.
They should not be toss drivers off with
SECRET drug tests. They should not be able to
“Carl Long” anyone. ( yup, lets coin that term )
NASCAR “Carl Longed” Carl Long.
Who knows what Carl really did, but NASCAR
responed by “Carl Longing” him. : (
This is hurting NASCAR’s image, and could spell doom for them, but it is not too late.
Power corrupts,
Absoute power corrupts absolutey
on Sep 28th, 2009 at 4:51 am
Excellent comment mert! If Jr. was in any way living up to his hype, we may not even be having this discussion!
I like the politics, too. I enjoy the behind-the-scenes crap and who’s jumping ship and sponsorship battles and all that stuff, because it provides more to the character studies of the drivers, chiefs, owners, etc.
and that’s what’s missing… characters!
Aside from Kyle Busch, are there any newer drivers that even seem remotely personable or at all interesting? I keep hoping Kenny Wallace will come back just to hear what he has to say! Carl Edwards of course is becoming a household name mostly cuz of the backflip and the Aflac commercials, and that’s what these new drivers have got to do. They and their teams have got to realize that driving consistently may win championships but it won’t win over fans or sponsors. They’ve got to be showmen. Or win races. Or get into fights. Or SOMETHING.
on Nov 9th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Where to start ? To pick up on Stanley Byrd’s comment above, NASCAR needs to change it’s name to National Association of Race Cars because there ain’t no stock cars racing any more . I followed the sport (?) back in the 60’s and 70’s when it was about racing . It was about the car and the brand, not the driver (ala soap opera). I became a Dodge fan because of Dodges in NASCAR and NHRA (Pro Stock is another issue). Racing was popular because what won on Sunday could be bought on Monday, Talledaga Fords and Daytona Chargers. Manufacturers were about innovation (and sniveling about unfair rules) but it was Dodge against Ford against (yuk) Chevy. It’s not anymore. It’s about Martin against Stewart against Gordon and I DON’T CARE !
The Death of NASCAR started with restricter plates. It was said that they were a safety issue (I take issue with that) and to bring speeds down at the bib tracks. That’s what the wall is for. If you can’t go around without hitting the wall you go back to the garage and reengineer something else.
The Rule Book issue has always been CRAP ! and it’s simple to fix. Throw it out, there’s one rule. The car has to be an american made sedan (I personally like having Toyota and anyone else that wants to jump in the ring try ) powered by a push rod V8 available to the public for purchase (the old 500 rule). Other than that, RUN WHAT YA BRUNG ! No more CoT and leased engines. Get back to basics and real racing. And if you want to keep some kind of cost controls, then make everything a claimes race. N’uff said !