Really Carl Long? Too many cubic inches? At what point did you really think that was a good idea? There is “working in the gray areas,” and then there is cheating. What Long did was about as blatant as cheating gets.
In case you have no idea what I’m talking about, Carl Long was suspended for twelve races on Wednesday, docked 200 points, and his crew chief was fined $200,000 for running an engine at the All Star Showdown that exceeded the maximum engine cubic inch limit. See the story at SceneDaily.
The penalties levied on Long & Co. are the most severe ever handed down by NASCAR.
The engine that broke the rule was run during practice for the Showdown, but it blew up and was replaced before the Showdown. NASCAR took the engine from the team, and brought it back to it’s R&D center in Concord, NC. It was there that the infraction was discovered.
Normally you want to root for guys like this. They scrape together every cent they have just to show up at the track. Everybody loves the underdog. And I understand that they are at a serious disadvantage when they hit the track because of the lack of resources. And I can also understand trying to fudge on some things to try and make the race. But thinking you can get away with putting an engine in the car that is too big to gain a horsepower advantage is ludicrous.
In my opinion, Long and his team deserve everything they get in this situation. It’s such a stupid and blatant disregard for the rules that NASCAR had no other choice but to come down hard on them. This is the kind of cheating you would expect to find on a Friday night at a local short track. Not in the Sprint Cup Series.
So now, on top of the twelve race suspension and the point penalties, they’ve also most likely ruined the career of the crew chief. Something tells me that neither he nor Carl Long can afford to pay a $200,000 fine, and NASCAR won’t allow him into a track until the fine is paid.
Hope it was worth it.
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on May 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Well since your so smart i thought i would let you know that the the infractions were very minimal. the bore was .0007 over(in only 1 cylinder) and the stroke was .0004 longer. it was that close. I was there to watch the officials tear it down with carl’s team. I over heard him saying he bought the motor used and with a small budget team like that they probably couldn’t afford to buy a motor ready to race and then pay someone to re-check the numbers. If anything he over trusted who ever he purchased the motor from. I really feel bad for the team because Nascar is only trying to make a statement out of them.
on May 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Now hold on a minute TC, Lets think about this rashionaly. Do really think Carl Long would do this intensionally? No I don’t either. Does Carl have the resources to check the ci of every engine he buys, no he does not. Does he rely on the engine builder to build an engine to NASCAR specs yes, can he check what he receives NO he can not. So why does NASCAR nail him so badly, he is not a full timer, he can’t afford the fines, Why not go after the engine builder, let the engine builder pay the fine, suspend their business in NASCAR until the fine is paid. This is like a cop busting a small drug dealer instead of going after the supplier. Whats the point the supplier is still in business and the little guy is fliping the bill.
on May 21st, 2009 at 5:11 am
Carl Long is one of the most honest guys in racing. I have personally worked with Carl and he has more integrity in his little pinky than all the drivers out together. I am ABSOLUTEY sure that if he had any idea that his power plant wasn’t legal, he would have never used it. I understand that NASCAR needs to uphold the rules, but let’s get serious here. The officials all know that Long has never and would never do anything against the rules. That’s why he isn’t up there basttling with the big teams. I wish I had the money to pay his fine for him and then purchase a competitve engine for him. He is a talented driver, fierce competitor and a really great guy.
on May 21st, 2009 at 6:40 am
Before I start with my reply, please remember that this post wasn’t a personal attack on Carl or his team. I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, I’m just commenting on the situation. So let’s try and keep the personal feelings stuff out of the conversation and look at this objectively…
If Racer31’s numbers are correct, then maybe the weight of the penalty was a bit excessive. But the penalty is still warranted regardless. Saying you bought the engine from somebody else, and that it had been raced before isn’t a defense. When you show up to the track, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure your car will pass inspection. If someone doesn’t have the resources to do a proper check of their car and its components before they hit the track, then maybe they shouldn’t be racing.
And while it may appear that NASCAR is picking on a little guy here, they are well within their rights to tear down that engine if they see fit. When you show up to a NASCAR event, you agree to play by their rules. With an infraction like this, NASCAR will not mess around with penalties, because they are trying to make an example out of him. Don’t mess with, or in this case buy, an engine that doesn’t meet spec, and you won’t get nailed.
So even if Carl and his team were not looking to gain a horsepower advantage with an engine that was too big, it is still their responsibility. NASCAR draws a line with the rule book and says “here is the line, don’t cross it.” If a team can’t afford to be penalized for something like this, then they need to be sure their car meets the requirements set forth by the sport.
on May 21st, 2009 at 8:22 am
I need a bit more information before choosing my side of the fence here. What prompted NASCAR to seize that particular motor after it “done blowed up”? Is this common across the board to commandeer all parts and pieces in every session? Make a tip-off was in place here.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:27 am
Nascar seizes all blown motors and diagnoses them to see if they met all tech specifications. Yes TC the numbers are correct if anyone happened to walk by the garage area where the motor was being tore down they would have seen me handling the motor. Yes a penalty needs to be assesed for breaking the rules but they punished the wrong guy to hard. Waltrip got a 100k fine for place a tiki torch combustible at the bottom of his intake to help with HP. that is deliberate cheating not this. when guys buy motors they dont tear them down they trust the engine builder (ernie elliot) and after it has laps on it the tear it apart and refresh it. Would carl bring the motor if he knew. HELL NO he wouldn’t try to cheat in this closely speculated series where oficials are always breathing down your neck and he wouldn’t want to be hit with a fine this hefty.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:41 am
I agree with T.C. that is was Carl’s responsibility to make sure his equipment was within the rules. However, it seems to me Nascar should be going after whoever built the engine to begin with. This is yet another example of Nascar leaning on the little guys and it’s sickening.
What if Tony Stewart showed up with an illegal engine? Nascar would never suspend him at all, let alone for 12 races. Call me a conspiracy nut all you want but you all know it’s true. Tony brings in money and fans so Nascar would protect him. Are Carl Long T-shirts even available? I doubt it.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:48 am
Isn’t this similar to Rob Gordon’s situation when he got a bad nose from Evernham? I can’t remember but I think he got his fine & points back after he appealed.
Also, I do find it hard to believe that a start & parker who has only attempted 2 races would risk any fine whatsoever. I agree that Carl should be held accountable for ensuring that his equipment meets specs but I in no way think this was intentional. NASCAR is essentially banning this guy for life because he’s not going to be able to pay that fine.
Intent is difficult to prove here but I think the circumstances show that this was either unintentional or incredibly stupid. There should definitely be a penalty because the rules were broken but I think it’s totally excessive.
If you don’t know that you are cheating can it still be considered cheating???
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:52 am
In this instance, I agree w/ Racer. Carl Long? C’mon guys. He is a low budget team that wants to race with the big guys. He tries very hard, but as we all know, that is not nearly enough to compete with all the big money, so quit with the big issue!!! I don’t know why his motor was (a bit) too big, nor do I care. Does anyone think that would make him a giant killer? NO WAY> His engine could have been 50 cubes too big, and not made much of a difference. (engineering factor) I would imagine that after this, Carl will have had his fill of NASCAR and all their BS. Someday maybe NASCAR will look back & wonder why they did’nt cut Carl a little slack instead of being the big bully on the block.
on May 21st, 2009 at 10:16 am
Remember in the Robby Gordon situation that the piece in question came from the manufacturer, and it was their mistake. Robby would have never known otherwise.
And no licker, I don’t think you can plead stupidity here…
I’ve got to say though, I don’t remember doing this in the past with any other post, but I think I might be backing off my position a bit. If what people are saying is true and Carl just plain didn’t know, maybe the penalty is excessive. I’m not saying I’ve switched sides here, as I still think the penalty was warranted, but I’m coming down a bit.
on May 21st, 2009 at 10:26 am
The most excessive part of the penalty is his complete suspension from NASCAR until Aug. 18, considering he has a full-time job with a Nationwide race team. So this penalty extends beyond 12 Sprint Cup races that he probably wasn’t going to attempt anyways.
I also agree with the other posters who note that if this happened to a driver with a sponsor, there would be no suspension — maybe for the crew chief, but in no way would the driver be suspended. And it’s even more crazy for a non-points race that only earned them $5000.
on May 21st, 2009 at 11:11 am
I think NASCAR put it to Carl Long, but the rest of the Cup guys better beware, the PRECEDENT has now been set. No doubt, the Supreme Leader of NASCAR wants to be able to choose the Cup Champ…………JMO
on May 21st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
If NASCAR is smart enough to catch the infraction, then NASCAR should be smart enough to decifer whether or not the illegal parts provided a performance advantage. Based on the firgures Racer31 has provided, this is clearly not a case of gained performance.
The famous Roush racing out of tolerance springs on Martin’s car years back did not warrant this kind of suspension, and Roush used the “outsourced supplier card”. Then again, it did perhaps arguably cost him a Cup Championship in the end!
Question…Is Carl Long suspended (12) races because he is a driver and an owner?
on May 21st, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Guys, let’s get a grip on reality here. When you’re talking .0007 over on the bore and .0004 long on stroke, the first thing you need to do is have your instruments re-calibrated. The next thing you need to do is have two other people check it with different instruments. Even if it does check big after all that, what about the stress from the engine blowing up in the first place? Doesn’t it seem plausible that it could have distorted the block a half thousandth?
Now, in the span of ten days, Nascar has given the death penalty to two struggling drivers. These are the type of drivers that the average blue collar fan can really identify with. Oh that’s right… Nascar doesn’t care about the average fan anymore. Isn’t that why ratings are down 30% over the last 3 years?
Nascar has a serious lack of leadership and the last ten days has just magnified direction the sport is headed in.
on May 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I am wondering if the savior and deity of all things NASCAR, Dale Jr., would get the same fine, or even have the infraction called on him. NASCAR used to be the greatest spectator sport in America, but with all the BS rule changes it is a mere parody of itself. Bring back the days of stock cars that looked like stock cars and real racing. Nowadays when i even try to tune in they have a race wedged in between commercials. I could go on and on. Blah and phooey.
on May 21st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
So exactly how much more *^#$&@ horsepower can you get from .17 cubic inches? I understand rules are rules but please, Carl Long is a backmarker with no chance of breaking into the top 25. As was previously stated here [stevec], NASCAR is punishing the little guy to make a statement like they have some kind of integrity to protect. HA HA HA! Gimme a break.
on May 21st, 2009 at 1:54 pm
T.C. — Come on man. Do you really thing that the alleged microscopic infraction provided any advantage? If Carl Long was really trying to cheat don’t you think he would gone for something that would make a true difference. Shouldn’t there be some allowance for this sort of infraction? NASCAR has an allowance for speeding on pit road of I believe 5mph. Even if the driver exceeds this allowance the resulting penalty it is not a death sentence for the driver in that race. I realize we are talking about on-track versus an equipment infraction. Still, I think NASCAR should look at intent versus what is a minor technical error. My guess is that now that focus is off their stupid drug program, they can reduce the penalties for Carl Long and look like the fair and compassionate organization we all know them to be. Ha.
on May 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I understand rules. They need to exist, but I have always been and will always be a more spirit of the rules kind of guy. The rule was put in effect to keep someone from having an unfair advantage. When has Carl Long ever had any advantage in Nascar? The extent of the penalty is crazy. If Carl Long had an extra $200,000.00 sitting around his car would be better than it is, because he would have spent it to make it competitive. This is like giving someone the death penalty for a speeding violation instead of a ticket. This type of thing is killing Nascar.
on May 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I agree with Will B. – It appears that NASCAR is taking out after the “go or go home” teams. NASCAR’s excessive penalty & suspension of Carl Long effectively runs him out of the sport.
Maybe its sponsor pressure (i.e.: Toyota/Red Bull’s Scott Speed already missing two shows so far this season)? After all, the sport needs a fashionable, purse-carrying hipster (who paints his toenails) in the field each week to sell us $2 cans of Red Bull and get us ready for the “2009 Toyotathon”.
Meanwhile, Phil Parsons’ and Trevor Boys’ teams should expect a tough time making it through the “room of doom” this week. And I hope Scott Riggs and Joe Nemechek don’t have allergy attacks or come down with colds.
on May 21st, 2009 at 3:44 pm
TC, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Did Carl’s team use an illegal engine? Yes. Does he deserve a penalty? Yes. Does he deserve this penalty? No. 200 points is more than any driver earns in a points race and this was a non points race. $200,000 is about 4 times as much as Hornish got for winning the Showdown and no driver has been suspended for any length of time for a parts violation. This penalty was way too excessive.
I mean what’s next. Is NASCAR going to penalize a driver and team 300 points, $400,000 and a 24 race suspension for a minor violation? Like others have said, if this had been a top tier team like the 24, 48 or 88 then the crew chief would have been suspended but not the driver. When they suspend Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson or Dale Jr. for a parts violation then you can say NASCAR got it right with Long but until then it’s just NASCAR inconsistency at its best.
on May 21st, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Wow, there are a ton of Carl Long fans apparently. As commenters continue to light me up, and will probably keep doing so in spite of this, I’m going to say this anyway.
While it doesn’t change my opinion of the situation a whole lot, I didn’t know at the time I wrote this post that the infraction involved the engine being .17 in too big. I read NASCAR’s statement and figured by the nature of the suspension that it must have been worse then that. Obviously an engine that is 358.17 cubic inches isn’t going to give somebody a horsepower advantage. So it appears that the suspension may be too severe in this case.
But let’s not forget here that the rule was broken. Carl isn’t innocent, and he admitted that himself. In terms of the rules, there are just some things you don’t mess with, and the engine is one of those. NASCAR says it can only be 358 cubic inches. Once you go past that, it doesn’t matter whether it was 400 or 358.17, the rule was broken. And NASCAR is making an example of Carl to let all the other teams know that this won’t be tolerated.
To all the conspiracy theorists who say that this wouldn’t have happened if it were Dale Jr. or Jeff Gordon, I can’t answer to that. I’m not one to believe in conspiracy theories in the first place, so I find it hard to believe that things would be a whole lot different with another driver. I’m curious though, if this was Dale Jr. being penalized what the reaction would be. Would it be different if the team were actually trying to a gain an advantage? Do you feel differently because the driver involved is a privateer?
I also don’t think this is some sort of smoke screen for the Mayfield situation, as I’ve seen suggested elsewhere. NASCAR isn’t dumb enough to try and distract fans from one weird penalty situation with another.
As we move forward with this, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the commission reduce the penalty levied against Carl, but don’t expect them to get rid of it completely. The engine in question was illegal and it was Carl’s responsibility to make sure he had a car that could pass tech.
With that said, let the hate and discontent towards me and this post continue.
on May 21st, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Bore^2 x Stroke x .7854 x 8 = Cubic Inches
A .001″ inch smaller bore would of put them in the clear. .001″ would drop the cubic inches 0.17. Were they cheating, sure. Was there intent? Obviously not. .001″???
For those that don’t know how small that is. Take the average human hair which is .003″ and split it 3 times. Were they blatantly cheating? I think not.
Maybe a $25k fine and probation, but the largest fine in NASCAR history? You have to be kidding me. After all the blatant cheating that the powerhouse teams have done just over the past couple years and you fine these guys $200k? Knaus creating a device that raises the rear window when you move the track bar? MWR putting fuel addictive in their intake manifold? The list of illegal parts other teams have showed up with, illegal COT wing braces, springs, shocks, front bumpers and you fine Carl Long $200k and take 200 points, ban the driver from racing for 12 races and all this occurred during a non points event?
NASCAR screwed up on this one bad. Hopefully the appeals committee will right this wrong or you mark me down on the list with everybody else who are done with NASCAR. I hardly watch now because of all their inconsistent BS, but this tops them all.
on May 21st, 2009 at 5:56 pm
It was Carl’s car owner(wife) and his crew chief’s job to make sure the engine was legal. NO nascar driver has ever been suspended from a race do to a parts violation. the crew chief is fully responsible for his teams actions, not the drivers. if a crew member goes over the wall with out a helmet nascar does not fine the driver, they fine the crew chief. when the rear wing mounts on Jr’s car were illegal Jr wasn’t banned, his crew chief was.
I would say (if they are trying to or not), Nascar appears to be going after the little guy. far more inteninal cheating has gone on in recent years, including multipul offences(48) with little more than a slap on the wrist.
This penalty is way over the top, based off history it shoudl be no more than 100pts,100,000. and 6 weeks off for the crew chief.
on May 21st, 2009 at 6:11 pm
I seem to remember with someone else’s penalty that intent has nothing to do with anything and Nascar is not in the business if determining intent. I also remember hearing Nascar was going to increase rules infraction penalties. However they do need to consider the people/team involved. Now what Carl did on one team has resulted in him having overall general employment issues, that is just wrong. I also don’t think they need to penalize a team out of business for .17 and no real advantage. Hopefullt the appeals process will give the guy his job back and a penalty that won’t cause such a catastrophic problem for the team
on May 21st, 2009 at 7:30 pm
How can anyone not be a fan of Carl Long, TC? I mean, c’mon, he’s one of the last real, true independent drivers with a low-budget, yet he’s faster than many of the “big name” drivers. Could you imagine what he could do with money? On top of that, this penalty is just complete garbage. Anybody who’s followed NASCAR knows that it’s nothing but garbage, and really screwing over the little guy.
And if Carl had the resources NEEDED to measure the bore/stroke, he would have. But he most likely doesn’t, so he truested an engine bulider with a stellar reputation.
on May 21st, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I like Carl Long, in the rooting for the underdog sort of way. However .17ci over is just the same in NASCARS mind as 300ci over. But thats at the track, I think the appeal panel will have a look at it and knock the penalty down significantly.
TC I’m with you on this one however. NASCAR did the right thing. They found he broke the rule, the rule book says he gets X amount of fine, and X amount of races suspension. Then its up to the appeals committee to get into Carl side of the story, and the circumstances surrounding it.
NASCARS the cop that writes you the ticket, but you always have the chance to go before the judge and prove your side of things.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Another thing to keep in mind is that a driver and owner has been suspended for an illegal part for the first time that I can remember. It is usually just the crew chief. Carl Long is the driver and is not listed as the owner. So the precedent has been set. If an illegal part is found on Johnson’s car, Junior’s car, Gordon’s car, etc. in the future, the driver is gone for 12 weeks. And this was a minute violation which didn’t even give any type of advantage.
The precedent has been set, now lets see if NASCAR sticks with it. I seriously doubt it though.
Another funny thing I find is you can be 0.125″ too low in post race tech and win a race and get to keep the win. Even when that is an advantage. But 0.17 over on an engine that only ran a practice session and was no advantage and you are in effect banned for life.
NASCAR has become laughable.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:11 pm
TC!!! A bunch of Carl Long fans? You’ve got to be joking, this has nothing to do with being a fan of his. This is the HOLIER-THAN-THOU attitude that NASCAR had, has and will continue to have. Yes he broke the rule and should have been penalized but I don’t believe that’s the argument here. This goes beyond that.
You call you’re self a reporter, editor???? What ever happened to investigating a claim before it’s published? You automatically assumed that just because NASCAR put it out there then it must be gospel. I’ve been following NASCAR since 1976 so I’m not new to this rodeo.
There’s no since in beating a dead horse but the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Do you actually think that Carl would have admitted an illegal engine for inspection when they had the option of loading up and going home after the engine overheated? maybe maybe not but I believe that Carl is not that type of person.
Look at the past history of the inadequacies that has come out of NASCAR even the NBA isn’t this dysfunctional.
I’ve said it a hundred times that NASCAR needs competition and then and only then will you see a different run organization.
on May 21st, 2009 at 9:40 pm
T.C. if it were a big name driver intentionally cheating I would look at nascar not the driver. My problem is not with the rules, it’s how Nascar picks and chooses who gets penalized and how much. I’d love to see a little consistency.
I have a question for you. In a “normal” cheating scenario does the driver know what is going on? Or is he left in the dark for plausible deniability? They always say they did not know, but who knows for sure.
It’s the crew chiefs job to gain every advantage he can. It’s Nascar’s job to catch them if they step over the line. That’s the way the game is played, and that’s fine. The joke is how they rule on each driver differently. Look at football, a penalty is not increased for a 3rd string player. Until Nascar becomes consistent in it’s rule enforcement it will continue to be a joke. Sad thing it, it’s really not funny.
on May 21st, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Since everyone else is throwing their two cents in I figure I might too. Ignorance for the rules is no excuse for breaking them. Carl broke the rules and he deserves to be punished. Plain and simple. Did he deserve the penalty he got? Probably not. But a major punishment is well deserved here.
What would all of you be saying if this was a major team that had done this? I’m guessing most would be calling them cheaters and applauding the penalty. While Carl Long may not have the resources other teams have, he does have the same responsibility to make sure his equipment fits within the guidelines clearly stated in the NASCAR Rule book. You may not have a copy, but he sure does.
NASCAR stated long ago that major infractions like this are not going to be tolerated. They have repeatedly increased fines and levied most of those against major teams. This time it just happened to be a small owner/operator. Any engine infractions, no matter how small they may seem, are going to be heavily penalized by NASCAR and frankly they need to be.
NASCAR can not allow Carl Long to get away with something like this just because of his financial situation. Or because he says he didn’t mean for it to happen. It sets a very dangerous precedent. I think Jeff Burton said it best in an article on ESPN today. “Tall fences make great neighbors. Big rules make people not cheat.” He is absolutely right.
Clay – T.C. doesn’t claim to be an editor or reporter. He is a tire changer who writes for a blog. It is his opinion. If you don’t agree with it that is fine, but please don’t attack him. I personally think it was impressive that he was man enough to come say maybe I jumped the gun a little. He still believes penalties are deserved, but he was backing off the intensity of his opinion. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. We are all human and we all reserve the right to back off of things sometimes.
Bobby- The difference in this case is that Carl is not just a driver. He is much, much more on his team. He owns the car and works on it. It is all him in there.
I agree with you that NASCAR needs to have some consistency with fines (I don’t necessarily agree with you that they are not consistent in rule enforcement), but in recent cases I understand what they are doing. If you know the next time you decide to cheat you are going to be suspended for several races and fined $100,000+ it is going to make you think.
on May 21st, 2009 at 11:04 pm
To all you retards,
The engine in question blew up in practice for a non points race exhibition. The replacement engine is not in question, and Carl never advanced. Where is the reasoning for the over inflated penalty, and what is the tolerance for their testing equipment. Most guages have +- of several .0001″. Nascar needs to get off of their extremely high horse and get with the times.
on May 21st, 2009 at 11:05 pm
I am not a Carl Long fan of any sort. And I can agree with the penalty 100% if we as fans knew the next time a car is found with an illegal part no matter who it is that the crew chief, driver, and owner would be suspended in the same manner for 12 weeks.
Would this mean if the #48 got caught with an illegal part that the crew chief and driver for the #48 plus the owner of the #24, #28, #5, and #88 would be suspended for 12 races and unable to compete?
I can tell you right now that isn’t going to happen. I would put $200k on that bet.
Heck it was only 7 months ago that Red Bull got caught blatantly cheating with sheet metal panels that were undersize and either “acid dipped or chemical milled” to save weight. And this was on the COT which is so taboo to mess with. Vickers finished 11th in this points paying event. He was able to keep his 11th place finish and money. He was able to keep racing the next week. The owner was allowed to bring the #83 and #82 the next week to the track. Their money penalty was half of Carl’s.
You shouldn’t even have to stop and think about which rules violation was more severe(one was raced with and kept his finishing spot and money and the other was in a non-points practice session)…..yet the penalties don’t match up. They never do. That is why NASCAR fans are so upset. I have had a chance to check out many articles and the comments to the articles this evening and it is wild how many people are upset with NASCAR. It obviously is not Carl Long fans, because Carl could never dream of having that many diehard supporters if he won a championship. lol
Fans know if this would of been a top team with a full time sponsor things would of been different. We are not stupid.
If the next illegal part that is found on a powerhouse team’s car results in a crew chief, driver, and owner from being suspended from NASCAR competition for 12 weeks even if the part is found before qual inspection as Carl’s was then I will eat crow and never complain about NASCAR again.
on May 21st, 2009 at 11:27 pm
I love the passion of race fans! We’ve had two posts this week with over 30 comments, which is great. Thanks for that!
Every person tonight that says they want equal penalties for equal infractions, yet turns around and says NASCAR should go easier on Carl because it was a small infraction, he’s a low budget team, and the engine wasn’t raced is contradicting themselves. This is big time auto racing folks, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. Michael Waltrip’s jet powered race car was never raced, so does that mean NASCAR should have gone easier on him?
When the JGR Nationwide cars were found last year with magnets under the throttle pedals, I didn’t see any of you folks rushing to defend JGR who they claimed was the victim of a rogue engine shop employee.
Carl claims he didn’t know the engine wasn’t going to pass. That’s fine. But true or not, the engine was too big. So because of some of your comments, does that mean JGR should get a pass because they “didn’t know” about the magnets? I didn’t think so.
And if you want to be narrow minded and say that if NASCAR is going to penalize Long like this, then every team that is caught with an illegal part or breaks a rule should be penalized the same, thats fine. But not every infraction is the same, and they should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Johnny Davis Motorsports (NNS team) was found with an illegal spring at Daytona and was docked points. Under this “everyone gets penalized the same” system some of you want, JDM would have been fined heavily, and suspended. Is that what you want?
With each rule breaking situation, NASCAR keeps raising the bar on penalties. They do so to deter any sort of cheating. You all want better competition. Well better competition means no cheaters. NASCAR used Long as an example and you all rush to his support. As I’ve said before, maybe the penalties are too harsh. But either way, the rule was broken. None of you can dispute that.
And to commenter Clay, I never claimed to be an editor or reporter. I’m a tire changer that happens to write on a blog. This is all MY opinion. By the way, what NASCAR put out was true. Long’s engine was too big. I didn’t need to investigate their “claim” as you called it.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 am
Can you really lay claim to the title of or write under the banner of “NASCAR Insider” if you publish your article before reviewing the facts of the story to some degree? I can understand the point of view you took in your original article if you had only read the NASCAR statement and stopped there. But the devil is in the details in this case.
That said, I’d much rather be reading your take on great on-track battles instead of the off-track NASCAR “politics” that seem to have taken over this season.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 3:07 am
TC, for one, doesn’t JGR have their OWN IN-HOUSE engine program? (sorry if I’m wrong here) So I could *SEE* suspending a team if they BUILT the engine themselves.
Carl does not have that. This was an Ernie Elliott motor.
True it was put into Carl’s car and he then accepts responsibility for it and alleviates Ernie Elliott from any responsibility for what may happen with the lump at that point.
But do you *REALLY* think any of this was intentional? I mean, c’mon dude. 0.17 of an inch? Really?
No one is saying that he shouldn’t be punished.
But this is the BIGGEST penalty EVER administered by NA$CAR!!! To the competitor with the least amount of financial resources. Again, no excuses. He was in the wrong and punish him.
But most people don’t know that Carl also works for Front Row Motorsports (#34 & #37 Cup Teams) in a non-driving capacity as his “day job.” This suspension (until August 18) also severely impedes his ability to go to work every day. The man has to earn a living and racing is what he knows best if not ALL that he knows.
I hope the idiots at NA$FARCE will come to their senses (doubtful) and severely reduce his punishment to make it more fitting to the crime.
If you feel the same way, may I invite you to sign this online petition at:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/carllong
on May 22nd, 2009 at 6:38 am
I am a NASCAR fan from way back. I also have a little hard earned knowledge of working on my own powerplants in all my rides. Carl’s team broke the rules. There is no if’s, and’s or but’s. My questions are these: (1) If this motor had been run before (how many miles), I would think the motor would have had some wear in the cylinder walls. (2) Was this engine at race temp or cool when checked? Metal expands and contracts as it heats and cools. A prime example is Rusty Wallace in the late 90’s. He won a race. Engine was checked immediatley after the race and found to have been out of specs. It was checked after it cooled, and passed. No fines or penalities. I understand this isn’t your fathers NASCAR, and basically none of the rules are applied evenly anymore depending on who you are. Rules broken? YES! Fines & penalities? They are coming! Excessive? HELL YEA!!!
on May 22nd, 2009 at 8:30 am
the motor was not 1.7 over. it was actually a 358.8 cubic inch motor which means it was .8 inches lol A penalty needs to be assessed because it was illegal but they need to investigate into the engine builder who is selling these motors. and the motor didn’t blow it actually overheated and locked up which would make it very easy to throw off the numbers. the heads were warped so bad the officials couldn’t even get an accurate c.c. reading from them. They actually increased the C.I. of the nationwide motors to help get rid of some of these slightly big motors.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 9:15 am
The “Insiders” part of the title of this blog needs to be removed if you’re going to print garbage like this story.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 am
Dave Johnson: I knew the facts of the story when I wrote the post. Carl Long broke the rules and was suspended. The problem is now, that everyone is up in arms because Long is an underdog and he “didn’t break the rule that bad.” I’m just the bad guy now because I don’t think NASCAR should let the guy off.
Mike: So we can only have the title of “Insiders” if you agree with what we write?
And to everyone talking about how Carl Long can’t work now because he can’t get into a race track must not realize that the race track isn’t the only place that work takes place for a team employee. The suspension doesn’t ban him from the shop folks…
on May 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
#1 People need to stop attacking T.C. for an opinion. In this great land we live in everyone is allowed to have a view.
#2 I agree that the penalties vary. It’s varied for years. Some of the points expressed are correct. You KNOW that if it was a big time team the penalty would not be the same. Roush never got suspended for an engine problem. Even for a spacer that cost Mark the championship. Maybe this is NASCAR again trying to set a precedent. But a measurement that sounds like basic wear is a bad precedent to set. Did the engine have a part expand from the heat that made the CI read bigger? How old was the engine? Teams in the past have kept wins and the cash from items NASCAR has felt is illegal. The precedent has now been set. If you lose an engine make sure to DW it so they can’t measure anything.
This isn’t about some grand conspiracy. This is about consistency. The only reason the little guy item is being brought into the picture is because no bigger owner has been banned from the track for infractions. That’s just a logical point not conspiracy.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
If the math is correct on the bore and stroke #’s stated in previous posts then I would assume that as an engine builder I wouldn’t dream of building an engine even close to the large side. with less than a human hair making the difference maybe these guys should be working at NASA instead of NASCAR.
Perhaps even the 358 spec is designed to give one cu in of leeway to each cylinder.
TC it would be nice for you to get one of your engine builders to post a comment on what it takes to build and assemble one of these beauties and what steps do they take in the big shops to prevent this type of error.
I do believe the penalty is WAY WAY to severe for this type of infraction. especially if normal wear and tear of an overheated engine could cause this type of measurement.
I do feel better after seeing the list of exdrivers and motorsports professinals on the appeals board and do feel that i will reserve my wrath for the results of the appeal.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
T.C.
I’m digging you the most today.
Please don’t ever be afraid of writing what’s on your mind no matter how controversial it is or may become at this site.
AsJ eff Lebowski once said, “It’s just my opinion, man.”
The debate is a good one with valid points on both sides.
The passion is appreciated and I’ve found myself changing my mind about the penalty with each new post.
At this point, I will confess that I am rooting for the small teams to remain competitive and involved in NASCAR. That is the mission and how the sport was created and it’s the reason that NASCAR chose to go with the COT.
I also must admit that I doubt that if it was the 88 team, the 48 team, or just about 10 other numbers – that a situation such as this would have been handled outside the media and discreetly covered up.
Can anyone really believe that a major team with a major sponsor would have been rubbed out under this circumstance?
By the way TC, sorry about that viral video I sent to you earlier this week, I’ll refund you the five minutes that it may have taken out of your life.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
The penalty was warranted and not excessive.
The reason it wasn’t is because there is no scaled penalties. It’s black and white with NASCAR. They can’t just fine him a little for an illegal engine. The previous penalties have brought this penalty to the level. If they dock him 15K it’s now a slap on the wrist to bring an illegal motor to a race and the penalty for an illegal nose on a car is 10x as severe.
NASCAR has painted itself into a corner with these penalties. They wanted to send a message early on and it got out of hand. Mikey Waltrip is the reason this penalty is so severe. Everytime someone does something illegal the fine has to go up to deter it from happening again.
After the Knaus and Letarte suspension in 07, no one has shown up with body alterations. Since Robby’s issue, all noses have been clean. I would also bet that there won’t be any illegal motors showing up any time soon either.
Now if all 4 HMS cars showed up, NASCAR would hit them the same. Anyone that says different is wrong. You play by NASCAR’s rules or you don’t play. The sport was popular long before Gordon and Junior and will be long after they are gone.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 5:12 pm
@JHowe
There it is again. I change my mind after every post. Now I agree with JHowe.
I am a NASCAR neophyte as compared to some (well most – ok, all) of the wickedly intelligent gearheads that grace this blog. I enjoy each and every contributer.
I hope that the night remains a safe on in Charlotte tonight. I’ve looked in on the area’s festivities from afar and it looks as if your city has quite a night planned.
Me, I’ll have to settle for another boring night in Sin City.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 7:04 pm
TC, I owe you an apology. I’m a hipocrite, I acused you of something then I turned around and did the same. I didn’t inform myself enough with the NASCAR Insiders. I just linked over from jayski and ASSumed that you were something that you’re not. Now that all that hog wash it over lets get back to business.
I admire and envy anyone that’s involved in your level of the sport. I race at my local track and have the addiction of just wanting to race. I just can’t understand why there hasn’t been more outcry from the other drivers and owners that this is just simply not fair. Is it that they’re afraid of NASCAR or maybe they’re bending the rules also and don’t want to call any attention to themselves. The thing that Carl is guilty of is just wanting to race. You can say he’s responsible for what he brings to the track and that’s true but when you’re on a budget you trust the supplier because in this case you can’t afford to tear the engine down to check everything, if that were the case he could just build it himself.
With me this really goes beyond Carl. It even goes back to when Big Bill France would carry a gun into meetings to let everyone know that he was the boss and even on one occasion fire the gun in the air. I know I’m going a little off track but it just burns me of the (GOD) attitude that NASCAR has always had. When it all comes down to it the owners, drivers and everyone else that’s employed through the benifit of NASCAR needs NASCAR you better bet that NASCAR doesn’t need them there will always be someone that comes along that will fill the shoes of the Gordon’s Earnhardt’s and so forth. You take the final lap incident at Talladega. One of the prophets, Jim Hunter, had the audacity that NASCAR is not to blame that it was all Carl Edwards and everyone else fault. They just can’t share any responsibility it’s always someone else. There I’m off my soap box. I’m not here just to totally blast NASCAR because they have done some noteworthy things like changes to safety. Once again TC I apologize for my comment.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I dearly wish Carl Long’s purchased motor had propelled him to finish 1st or 2nd (or even the fan vote) in the showdown….advanced thru the All Star segements and collected the million….just to see how Helton and crew would have handled themselves.
Based on this post response, we can al vote Carl (Long, not Edwards) in for 2010.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I think the penalty Nascar gave Carl Long and his team was extremely excessive.
I am not a Carl Long fan, nor is my opinion swayed by the size of his operation and lack of funds. I would disagree just as much if it were Roush Fenway or Hendrick or RCR.
The motor size measured out to 358.17 cu/in. The instruments used to measure this have a greater level of fallibility than the amount of the discrepancy. Factor in that the motor expired due to overheating, causing damage to the block including massive metal expansion due to heat.
Just the way the engine died could have caused the size issue. I think that should have been factored into the decision. It is not a ‘black and white’ issue and shouldn’t be treated as such.
I seem to remember another All-Star race having questions about an engine after it expired…
…after Darrel Waltrip crossed the finish line as the winner moments before it blew up.
on May 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pm
So I don’t really feel like reading all this stuff on here, but here is my thought. Sorry if this is redundant. The penalty was WAY to severe for a team of this cailber, even if it was a hendrick or Roush team, it still would have been way to severe for what it was. Mainly due to the fact that NASCAR thinks that they can do whatever they want to whom they want because…really they can, and anyone in the series will deal w/ it because “that’s the way it is”.
This is just a ridiculous fine and penalty for a seemingly “harmless” infraction. It was definelty cheating, but the way it was handled was as if he stomped on the entire field in practice and got the damn pole and won the race, this couldn’t be further from the fact of what actually happened. He ran in the back of the pack in practice and the other engine blew up on lap 3 in the race. The motor that was broken down was a minimum of 30 horsepower less than everyone elses in the field.
Also look at it this way….The motor was used, the cylinders have probably been honed once or twice in its life…also the reason the engine blew up was that it overheated….Warped the cylinder walls? Perhaps.
Lastly….Why in the hell would NASCAR suspend a driver for this infraction? I mean, by the book Carl is just a driver. NASCAR has NEVER gone this far over this type of infraction. NO WAY IN HELL would they EVER suspend someone like Jeff Gordon, for a infraction involving the car.
Those are just a few points to make, I don’t want to keep going because I just get too pissed off about how screwed up the situation is. I don’t care what anyone else has to say, I know I’m right…they deserved a penalty, but these were WAY to severe under the circumstances.
P.S. Look at Daytona in 2008, Carl’s (Longs) car was 2”!!!! to low in the rear in post race tech (gatorade duels) and they just disqualified him and told him to go home, I mean he didn’t make the race anyway. The reason in was too low was that a rear spring was out of the pocket, and was not noticed by the team member who was checking ride heights. When the car made it to the track the spring landed in the pocket and dropped the car 2” as a cause. They explained it to NASCAR and they were okay w/ it. Now maybe as a cause of this NASCAR has a sore spot for this team, causing such a heavy penalty levied towards them this time…..
on May 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 am
T.C.,
I’ve read and carefully thought about all the points made earlier. I agree with you that the penalties were warranted. If you enter a car, I have to believe on the entry form you agree to abide by the rules. I would be very surprised if the entry form says, “Oh, by the way, if you’re field-filler, we’re going to ignore your infractions since you’re not going to refuel your car anyway.”
Let’s all agree, Carl Long is a wonderful guy, and can’t possibly have intended to violate the rules. I hope the fine is severely reduced and suspension converted to time served and probation.
I’m not a gear-head, so I’m willing to look stupid by asking. If the rules prohibit an engine over 358 cubic inches, why come that close to the magic number? Why not come in an inch or two under just to avoid such a consequence?
West Coast Kenny
Alameda, California
on May 25th, 2009 at 5:52 am
TC,
It comes as a great surprise in a period where NASCAR seemingly would want to encourage as many upstart teams as possible (due to the economic downturn) that they would levy this punative a penalty. As a former short track crew member I’ve always admired the “creative interpertations” of the rule book, and considered that an integral part of racing.
I would have used this as an excellent PR opportunity – ie;
” In a throwback to NASCAR’s past Carl Long was found to have an oversized engine in his car, but since the motor was damaged and not used in competition the penalty was a 2 race probation”
Double J
Des Allemands, LA
on May 27th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Don’t know Mr. Long, but this is ridiclous. .17 ci oversize?Some mics have a diffucult time reading this. This reading would be extremely operator dependent. I like the King a ton but remember his oversize engine years ago? Cousin crew chief did it on purpose and got it through inspection because Nascar was not smart enough to find it. Let’s see I can’t remember his fine, maybe the author can look it up for us?
on May 27th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Well, didn’t take long for NASCAR to do their normal thing. Robby Gordon fined $50,000 and 50 pts. No suspensions for the driver, crew chief or owner. Both rules violations were miniscule and gave neither team an advantage.
To say one was more deserving of a higher fine is stupid. Both were cheating. It is black and white. This nonsense of “don’t mess with engine, fuel, tires” is even more stupid. You get caught cheating you should load up for the weekend with no money, no points whether it is post race or pre race. Simple fix.
It seems like if you get caught cheating in post race tech you always come out better because they never take your money or points away. Robby made more money than he was fined($208k in purse money). Stupid, stupid, stupid. They still $150k ahead.
Either fine everybody based on how much of a gain they are getting from their cheat or do as I said before and if you get caught cheating during the weekend…you load up and go home with no purse money or points.
Again, NASCAR will never do it as we have seen all within just 1 week. Two cheaters caught breaking a black and white rule…..penalties no where near in the same realm of each other. Plus if I was a crew chief I would rather have the rearend with more toe than the .17 CI.
I sure hope the appeals board fixes this.
on May 27th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Racer – It is a different type of infraction. Messing with the rear axle housing and having an engine that exceeds maximum cubic inches are two very different stupid things.
They talk about tires, engine and fuel because those things affect safety and can greatly increase performance. They deserve maxed out penalties. Carl Long’s situation is no different than Michael Waltrip. NASCAR didn’t hand out huge penalties after the jet fuel additive at Daytona. But that was a very big thing.
You can’t hand out the same penalty for everything. Just like in life, I am not going to go to jail for getting a speeding ticket, but I probably will if I rob someone. Two different infractions, two different penalties.
on May 27th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
I gotta go w/ Racer here. I’m just not seeing the difference here. Out of spec is out of spec. Now I can see if Gordon’s rear end was out due to an accident, but there again Carl’s long (sorry no pun intended) connector rod could have been due to an accident called an internal meltdown. I’m confused on severity calls here.
Is NASCAR doing all post race inspections at the NC R&D facility? or still at the track?
on May 27th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
So what we’re saying is everybody deserves the same penalty no matter what they do? I purposely take a guy out, I should be parked. So then I have a tire roll out onto pit road, I should be parked. I get caught speeding on pit road, I get parked. Same thing here. I use a motor that is too big and everybody gets suspended and I get a $200,000 fine. So my car is too low in post race inspection, everybody gets suspended for 12 races and there is a $200,000 fine. I have a spring that doesn’t fit within regulations, everybody gets suspended for 12 races and there is a $200,000 fine. It makes no sense.
What Carl Long was fined for was big. The last time this happened was the late 80s or early 90s and I believe Junior Johnson and others were suspended for 12 races. I’m sure he was probably fined too. There is precedent for that. Whether Carl Long meant to this or not this was big and it was bad.
A rear end housing that was too big deserves a penalty, but certainly not the one levied at Carl Long.
You CAN NOT have a standard fine you just hand out. Like I said previously it is not fair. No other sport works like this and frankly I don’t really think NASCAR should either.
on May 28th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Journo-I understand your point establishing difference between pit road and driving vs mechanical violations requiring their own set of penalties. But a rear end (Gordon), intake (Waltrip), spring seat, oil reservoir lid (LV-Edwards) or Longs motor are all integral “mechanical” pieces of that race car. Who is to say that one of these aspects provides, or doesn’t provide, more or less of a performance advantage? In my opinion NASCAR looks so strongly at engine related items as the life blood of the race car and will hit that area most heavily.
I’ve been through many a tear downs w/ SCCA and believe me I was nervous at times. Not because I cheated (never did that), but because of a possible oversight on my part which may or may not have given me an advantage. Maybe it’s like the NASCAR drug testing policy….what you don’t know “can” hurt you!
Question: are we the only ones reading/replying to a week old post?
on May 31st, 2009 at 7:38 pm
NASCRAP is a joke……..
Do you really think for a minute that .17 ci over on a 358 ci motor is going to make Carl Long any more competitive? Do you reallty think that someone is going to build this into a 358 engine for a competitive edge? Sounds to me more like wear issues……..
It’s about NASCRAP trying to run the smaller guys out of business…….. the guy may not be able to afford to run all of the laps in a race, but he still works hard to be there to eventually try to work his way up the ladder….. evidently he isnt one of the chosen ones from Hendrick, Roush, Gibbs, etc etc..
but thats ok, take the guy that runs last, often not even able to afford to finish the race, and throw the book at him……. I’d be interested to see dyno slips form this illegal engine versus a legal engine from one of the big teams….. I bet it would make NASCAR look really petty, even though rules are rules…..
dont get me wrong, if he was out of spec, he needs to be called on it…. but dont you think this is a bit much? Seems to me like an excuse to “fine” someone out of business………..
Find yourselves some good local dirt track to go to on the weekends……. no not everything will be perfect, but its beats the crap out of this NASCAR soap opera BS……
on Jun 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 am
when does the appeal get heard and a decision made?
can’t find anything re this suspension since it was delayed.
TC are you done with this blog?
on Jun 2nd, 2009 at 10:31 am
snappytom: I believe the appeal hearing is going on as I write this. I don’t know what the timetable is for a decision once the hearing is completed, but I’m guessing we’ll either hear this week or next.
on Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:20 am
just logged in to msn and saw the verdict.
TC could you check with one of the boys in the engine building shop and find out what exactly they do to prevent this type of issue.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a sad day for the sport. I stated before I was hoping for the appeals board to suspend the sentance or show some sort of leniency.
Lot’s of upset fans over on the fox sports message boards and these are just the ones that bother to log in.
Compared to the Toyota Magnet trick and Mickey’s jet fuel intake deal this shouldn’t have been 1/10th as severe.
Am I wrong to think there is a difference between normal wear and an intentional deception?
on Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 am
There is something else goin gon here.
Long must have pissed someone off,,
or said the wrong disrespectful thing
to the wrong “in power” person at NASCAR.
When things dont make sense, look deeper.
As far as I am concerned I despise these
tactics. If NASCAR wants hm gone, then
be honest, but to play this little game,
I am disgusted.
I will be boycotting watching NASCAR,
and I will attempt to avoid buying products
which advertise and support NASCAR.
I heard an interview with this guy, and
his life is shattered. If NASCAR wants to tell
us the truth, then I will come back, but if NASCAR
want to play “black bags politics” I am gone.
on Jun 3rd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Well NASCAR has managed to stomp in the face of human digitny that even I thought that they were incapable of. They have spit in the face of everyone that has ever bought a ticket to a NASCAR event or the likes of every person that has sacrificed everything just to or an attempt to go NASCAR racing. I really thought that NASCAR’s appeal board would recend at least some of the monies fined against Carl. They had a chance to do the right thing and blew it. It would be easy to say that I will never contribute to anything NASCAR but I have done this long ago. I just don’t know how much more you can hate the running and manage of a business. I’m really at a loss of words.
For everyone that thinks this has been an injustice, they should go to Carl’s website and donate to help pay Carl’s fine. What would you think NASCAR’s take would be if the fans of racing paid the fine? I think that would be the shot that was heard around the world.
on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:05 am
TC,
how about a grass roots effort to pay that fine?
I will donate $50.00.
It would be a shot heard round the world,
telling NASCAR what we think would be awesome.
hmmmmm….???
WHO GETS THE MONEY ANYWAY???
I always wondered WHERE DOES “fine” money, penalties paid go. Who gets the money? Does it go straight to France’s “luxury fund”?
anyway….
Could be a great idea, and good for your website
while doing a great thing for a human done wrong.
I am in for $50.00.
on Jun 4th, 2009 at 6:29 am
Garry: The fines NASCAR collects used to be placed back into the season long points fund that was distributed to the drivers after the year was over. Now they are given to the NASCAR Foundation which benefits a ton of charities.
on Jun 4th, 2009 at 10:16 am
I would be willing to bet that the people who think Carl long should be penalized have never built an engine for anything, much less worked in an Engine Shop. Did NASCAR check the Bore only or did they also check the diameter of the piston filling the hole? You can hone a cylinder on a used engine and cause what Carl Long’s engine checked at. IT’S A USED ENGINE!!!
Having been a racer for 40 years, (From Short Tracks, Drag Strips to Winston Cup Crewmember) I have seen a lot of “creative engine building”. I have seen 400 cranks in 350 blocks. Seen oversize pistons in 7 holes and 1 legal size where they expect to be checked. Creative ways to get more air or fuel or both. Many, many other things as well.
What was done to Carl Long’s engine was in no way done with the intention of increasing power. It was simply done with the intention of reusing an engine instead of scrapping it.
Les Richter and Bill France, Jr told me many years ago that NASCAR is in the entertainment business. Punishing Carl Long for something that was in no way intended to gain an advantage serves NO ONE. I attended Charlotte for the Coca Cola 600 and saw many, many empty seats. NASCAR needs to remember that they are in the entertainment business and try to please fans, not alienate the loyal fans that brought them where they are today.
I do not know Carl Long, but my perception of him is that he is the kind of guy who helped get NASCAR going. Men with a dream! With all of their heart, just want to race and be a part of the show. What benefit can there be from punishing this man whos only intention was to “Make the Show”
I hope Carl can recover from this and NASCAR will redeem themselves with their fans.
Thank you, Stan
on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Not sure if this is the correct place to say it,
but,
GREAT WEBSITE YOU HAVE HERE:)
Of course, feel free to post or not post this,
I just wanted to compliment you, pat you on the back and say “JOB WELL DONE”
I utilized good contact info found here to
email several NASCAR people and tell them
my feelings about “Carl Longing” Carl Long.
on Jun 5th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
i have an idea we can get mayfield to pay the fine after he get done wiping nascar face in the mudd..i figure he is gonna walk with millions and millions.
on Jun 5th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
That is a good idea Augie, although I dont know if he will win. Who knows what eveidence NASCAR may actually have ( but we would like to know ).
All I can say is, NASCAR is using gestapo tactics in something that is supposed to be for fun, as in entertainment. IF NASCAR thinks WE, the people sign thier paychecks, are this stupid, then NASCAR may be in for pay cuts, or out right layoffs.
NASCAR, please, cut the BS, and get back to what you do best.
on Jun 7th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
1. was Carl’s intent to gain an advantage?
2. Does he have a history of cheating?
3. Was the infraction blatant ?
4. Will I attend the November race in Texas like I have for the last 11 years?
but I will be giving to his fund to help pay his fine..
http://www.carl-long.com/donations.htm
on Jun 9th, 2009 at 7:12 am
Thank you for the link, I will be mailing my promised $50.00 today to the street address on the web site.
WE ARE BOYCOTTING NASCAR UNTIL THIS BS IS FIXED. It started last weekend. We did not watch any of the races, and we wont until this is fixed. We are DVRing F1 racing, and watching that, when we need to fill the space vacated by NASCAR : (
I dont want to sound wierd, but, when we have done this before, odd things start to happen. I fear that NASCAR is too arrogant to heed the warnings. Only time will tell, but from Montgomery Wards to GM, bad business leads to bad karma, and that leads to going out of business.
In 2 years when NASCAR wonders what happened,
they only need to read this website. It is not rocket science. DO PEOPLE RIGHT, AND THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU, and vice versa.
Fair Warning NASCAR>>> a drought is coming.
WE ARE BOYCOTTING, MEANING ONLY THAT WE WONT WATCH THE RACES OR SUPPORT THE SPONSORS. THIS IS A PASSIVE PROTEST. This is a peaceful protest.
IT IS WHAT WE WILL NOT BE DOING ( i.e. we wont be spending our money or watching on TV ) THAT SHOULD WORRY NASCAR.
on Jun 9th, 2009 at 7:21 am
Garry: You say you are boycotting until the situation is fixed. What do you constitute as “fixed?”
on Jun 9th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Until the stop the secret peanlties etc etc and BS suspensions.
BUT,,,, watch out what I wish for ….eeeekkk : (
Just now, I am sad to say, they may have stepped and started telling the truth, and the truth hurts. a report just came out that says the drug was Meth.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=558264
leaks are OK, if that is the way NASCAR wants to do it, but please juts tell us. I can take the ruth, and least it is honest.
The can fix it by telling us the facts…. on Carl, if he was “balck listed” tell us. Tell us he was a “what ever it is” , but dont do a BS penalty.
I can handle the truth, I understand politics, and if Carl was not playing nice with others, say that, but dont do a death penalty which makes no sense.
BTW
I mailed him $110.00 towrds the fine today, hopefully Garry Pacer will show up on his list, to show I am not BSing : )
on Jul 17th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Nothing would make me happier than to see nascar go out of buisness, and see a hodge-podge group of super modifieds get together and run a series of asphalt tracks. Nascar has “gotten to big for their britches”…….. that being said if this deal with NASCRAP trying to railroad people pisses you off, be a real race fan and start attending your local dirt tracks…… you’ll probably find the competition superior than NASCRAP…..
on Aug 6th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
After spending the last few days reading about Carl Long and his situation, I am sad… Especially because after looking at the “donation list” there is only 1 driver who donated $5,000 That is a filthy shame!!! to think that the top teams have not all rallied together to help Carl Long..are they worried that he might win the 2009 Chase……PLEASE..i am sick of being a NASCAR fan, I am sick of what this sport turned into….BUT..on the other hand is there something were not hearing? is there a THIRD side to this story we know nothing about…because its true we all agree that this whole penalty seemed way out of wack..but I cannot see that pure HUMANITY wouldnt keep someone like Dale jr. or Jimmie, Jeff , Kyle….and the list goes on…Maybe these teams were told NO DONATIONS,,DO WE KNOW..is there an underlying evil?? Because i agree with alot of the above posts..most of you have valid points…but the is 3 sides to everything…I would love to know the TRUTH
on Aug 6th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Joseph- Just like David Reutimann, every driver is free to do with their money what they like. NASCAR and teams are not mandating what the drivers spend their money on (nor do I think I care), in fact if they wanted to pay the fine for Carl Long I’m sure NASCAR would be thrilled because they aren’t ever going to see the money otherwise. The issue is everyone knows if it were them with the penalty, Carl Long and all the rest of the drivers wouldn’t be rushing to pay it for them. It’s sad, it’s unfortunate, but the penalty is what it is. No underlying evils, no conspiracies; he broke the rules and is unfortunately faced with a penalty that he can’t afford. While I know Carl doesn’t agree with the penalty, even he admits the motor was too big, it’s just the circumstances that he believes should have exempted him, or lessened the penalty.
In all honesty though, ask yourself this question: if it were a bigger team would people have made the fuss they made?